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Author Topic: Offical MLB Thread!  (Read 337915 times)

Offline Saburo

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1280 on: December 10, 2009, 10:41:40 PM »
Yankees get richer in the OF New York Yankees trade for an established star, center fielder Curtis Granderson.
Yep, Yankees pulled off a really good deal with the depth of their farm system.  Granderson gives them affordable talent in the outfield AND leverage in their dealings with J. Damon.  And yeah he sucks eggs vs LHP but don't you figure it balances out with Capt. Jeter, A-Rod and Teixeira in the lineup?  The Phillies have won back-to-back NL titles with Ryan Howard being Tom Thumb against lefties but have the depth to get past it.  Same for the Yanks.

I assume this closes the door on Gojira (King of Pr0n) Matsui, whom I think Yankee fans will miss more than they realize.  Matsui is one of those throwback Yankees who really DO shaddap and play ball, like the recently deceased Tommy Henrich, Gil McDougaldm and Roy White.

Offline stax

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1281 on: December 10, 2009, 10:52:16 PM »
Tex didn't deserve second, I agree (and I'm a Yankees fan), but his season was hardly purely RBI. He certainly deserved to finish top 5ish.

Top five...  Maybe; I might have placed him 5-6-7.  Certainly top ten and he does help a ballclub win games, even a $200 million one.

It's just remarkable that we live in an era of such advanced knowledge on how ballgames are won and lost.  Yet context-specific counting stats like RBI still rule the day with luddite BBWAA voters.  Joe Mauer was having the season of a lifetime yet Teixeria was already heralded by as the presumptive AL MVP by NY scribes after a game-winning HR in July.  And that just bugs me as a MLB fan.

I guess we should be thankful that the correct selection at the top was made.  But the other slots have merit as well.  I would have placed Ben Zobrist of the Rays higher than Tex.

Well ignore the New York media, of course they'll love their home town boy. Mauer was winning the MVP, everyone knows that. And I <3 meeting another more statistically minded fan.

Zobrist is an interesting case. As is Jeter/Tex, for that matter. Lets look at some top 5s of better value measurements for the 09 AL:

Batting Runs and Batting Wins (linear weights measure of just offense):
1. Joe Mauer (57.0, 5.2)
2. Mark Teixeira (45.1, 4.2)
3. Miguel Cabrera (38.0, 3.5)
4. Adam Lind (37.9, 3.5)
5. Ben Zobrist (36.4, 3.4)

Those are counting stats, lets try some offensive rate stats.

OPS+:
1. Joe Mauer (170)
2. Mark Teixeira (149)
3. Alex Rodriguez (147)
4. Ben Zobrist (146)
5. Kevin Youkilis (145)

Total Average:
1. Joe Mauer (1.121)
2. Kevin Youkilis (1.043)
3. Ben Zobrist (1.030)
4. Alex Rodriguez (1.012)
5. Jason Bay (0.993)
[6. Mark Teixeira (0.989)]

Again, obviously Mauer is the MVP. But 1 of these metrics has Tex in the clear lead offensively (Batting Runs/Wins), one is close with Tex in the lead (OPS+, but Yankee Stadium is so new that park adjustment may not be reliable), and somewhat close with Zobrist in the lead. More importantly, these only look at offense and don't account for position (making Mauer's lead in every single one while playing good defense at the hardest position on the diamond even more impressive). Lets look at 2 position adjusted, all-inclusive numbers.

Fan Graphs Wins Above Replacement
1. Ben Zobrist (8.6)
2. Joe Mauer (8.2)
3. Derek Jeter (7.4)
4. Evan Longoria (7.2)
5. Chone Figgins (6.1)

Tex doesn't come in until 11th on this list. Two caveats: First, FanGraphs doesn't calculate a "Fielding" value for catchers, so Zobrist has a giant lead here of 26.4 to nothing. Giving Mauer reasonable fielding credit I'd say this is at least still a tie. Secondly, Fan Graphs evaluates Tex as a negative defensively, which is simply wrong IMO.

Baseball Prospectus WARP2, discounting pitchers:
1. Joe Mauer (9.0)
2. Ben Zobrist (7.6)
3. Evan Longoria (7.1)
4. Franklin Gutierrez (7.0)
5. Chone Figgins (6.3)

Interesting note, BP has Grienke as the MVP in terms of WARP by a full half win. Tex comes in at 9th under this measure (1 spot and 2 tenths of a win ahead of Jeter).

I would tend to agree Zobrist probably > Tex once you account for everything.

Offline stax

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1282 on: December 10, 2009, 10:53:22 PM »
Yankees get richer in the OF New York Yankees trade for an established star, center fielder Curtis Granderson.
Yep, Yankees pulled off a really good deal with the depth of their farm system.  Granderson gives them affordable talent in the outfield AND leverage in their dealings with J. Damon.  And yeah he sucks eggs vs LHP but don't you figure it balances out with Capt. Jeter, A-Rod and Teixeira in the lineup?  The Phillies have won back-to-back NL titles with Ryan Howard being Tom Thumb against lefties but have the depth to get past it.  Same for the Yanks.

I assume this closes the door on Gojira (King of Pr0n) Matsui, whom I think Yankee fans will miss more than they realize.  Matsui is one of those throwback Yankees who really DO shaddap and play ball, like the recently deceased Tommy Henrich, Gil McDougaldm and Roy White.

Given their original plans to only sign one of Matsui or Damon, and since Matsui is essentially gone, my plan (personally, at least) would be sign Damon to a short term contract so you can get a platoon going. Platooning does work in extreme cases, and Granderson's splits are pretty extreme.

Offline Saburo

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1283 on: December 11, 2009, 01:55:11 AM »
And I <3 meeting another more statistically minded fan.

KUDOS!  What the world needs now is more "objective knowledge about baseball" (B. James' def. of sabermetrics).  Or even a little Joe Posnanski...

I don't remember exactly how I came across them but I have ALL of James' nationally published "Baseball Abstracts" (Ballantine Books) and that changed my entire perspective on everything.  That was over twenty years ago and not a whole lot has changed.  Jim Rice and Bowie Kuhn get into the Hall of Fame, Ron Santo and Marvin Miller get the shaft.  Sound familiar...

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do online now that the winter meetings have ended...  Winter baseball got the boot from Hawaii last year and I REALLY miss it.  Why should Arizona have all the damn fun?

Offline Saburo

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The History of the Highest Paid Player in Baseball
« Reply #1284 on: December 11, 2009, 04:20:12 PM »
Great piece charting "The Highest Paid Player in Baseball" from The Ryan Express to A-Rod.

Mark Davis, Bobby Bonilla, Kevin Brown, Carlos Delgado...  I kinda remember Mark Davis's signing but don't recall Delgado being numero uno, or even dos.

Supposedly Dave Parker got $1 million/yr before Ryan but I guess it was never documented or confirmed.

Offline stax

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Re: The History of the Highest Paid Player in Baseball
« Reply #1285 on: December 11, 2009, 07:25:13 PM »
Great piece charting "The Highest Paid Player in Baseball" from The Ryan Express to A-Rod.

Mark Davis, Bobby Bonilla, Kevin Brown, Carlos Delgado...  I kinda remember Mark Davis's signing but don't recall Delgado being numero uno, or even dos.

Supposedly Dave Parker got $1 million/yr before Ryan but I guess it was never documented or confirmed.

Should be Pujols, but since the Yankees (and the Red Sox) have established 1B and will when his contract comes up, he won't get there.

Offline Saburo

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1286 on: December 11, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »
Pujols' current contract ends after 2010, right?  Just like Jeter.

If anyone has a claim to baseball's first $30 million man at the moment, it's Phat Albert.  All this production AND Gold Glove defense at first with an elbow held together by Silly String or whatever Dr. Andrews uses these days.

WILL Saint Looey break the Budweiser bank?  Hell, just make him a Partner already.  This is Stan Musial you have on your team right now...

Reading about Cashman's offer to Damon/Boras being rejected and how the Yanks can wait things out a little longer during the winter.  I wonder if they'll have the same attitude when it comes to Jeter's looming extension which you'd think SHOULD be done and over with before they raise the championship flag in the New Stadium.

Offline stax

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1287 on: December 11, 2009, 07:50:00 PM »
Pujols' current contract ends after 2010, right?  Just like Jeter.

If anyone has a claim to baseball's first $30 million man at the moment, it's Phat Albert.  All this production AND Gold Glove defense at first with an elbow held together by Silly String or whatever Dr. Andrews uses these days.

WILL Saint Looey break the Budweiser bank?  Hell, just make him a Partner already.  This is Stan Musial you have on your team right now...

Reading about Cashman's offer to Damon/Boras being rejected and how the Yanks can wait things out a little longer during the winter.  I wonder if they'll have the same attitude when it comes to Jeter's looming extension which you'd think SHOULD be done and over with before they raise the championship flag in the New Stadium.

Jeter's a special case. He didn't deserve his insane 01 contract, and it's not going to be any better coming off a WS win and arguably the best year of his career.

Offline Saburo

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Jeter & The Empire
« Reply #1288 on: December 11, 2009, 08:01:38 PM »
The upcoming negotiations between Cashman and Jeter are just RIPE for the blogosphere because it has meaning on different levels: legacy politics (everybody knows you can NOT let D. Jeter wear anything other than Yankee pinstripes), future field position (Jeter can't possibly handle the grind of shortstop play for another few years or so), quality of play (his trouble fielding balls to his left clearly didn't affect his OBP: .406!).  Joe Sheehan said they have to get this done NOW and I'm apt to agree.

I wonder how long they'll allow the Bob Sheppard intro recording for every Jeter AB to continue at the New Stadium?  Don't you figure the new guy is gonna feel funnykine after a while...

Offline stax

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Re: Jeter & The Empire
« Reply #1289 on: December 11, 2009, 08:22:44 PM »
The upcoming negotiations between Cashman and Jeter are just RIPE for the blogosphere because it has meaning on different levels: legacy politics (everybody knows you can NOT let D. Jeter wear anything other than Yankee pinstripes), future field position (Jeter can't possibly handle the grind of shortstop play for another few years or so), quality of play (his trouble fielding balls to his left clearly didn't affect his OBP: .406!).  Joe Sheehan said they have to get this done NOW and I'm apt to agree.

I wonder how long they'll allow the Bob Sheppard intro recording for every Jeter AB to continue at the New Stadium?  Don't you figure the new guy is gonna feel funnykine after a while...

Again, he's a special case. He could pretty much murder someone on the field and the crowd would cheer for him.

Offline Saburo

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1290 on: December 11, 2009, 09:12:29 PM »
You think he'd suck it in and sign an above-market contract (club options for life) that says he can't dictate where he plays in the field?

LF in 2011?

Offline JFC

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1291 on: December 15, 2009, 04:24:16 AM »
REPORTS: Blue Jays trade Halladay to Phillies
Quote
Last Updated: Monday, December 14, 2009 | 9:01 PM ET
By Doug Harrison, CBC Sports

It appears Christmas has come early for the Philadelphia Phillies and their fans in the form of a Roy Halladay acquisition.

SI.com on Monday reported the Toronto Blue Jays ace pitcher has been dealt as part of a three-team trade involving the Seattle Mariners.

An anonymous source with the Phillies revealed that pitchers J.A. Happ, Joe Blanton and outfielder Dominic Brown underwent physicals, raising speculation the trio could be involved in the swap.

Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com both reported Monday that Canadian pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and Phillies outfield prospect Michael Taylor are among the players bound for Toronto, while Phillies left-hander Cliff Lee is headed to Seattle.

Halladay, who has a no-trade clause and one year remaining on his contract worth $15.75 million US, reportedly is in Philadelphia, where he had a physical on Monday and is presumed to be working on a contract extension with the Phillies.

Halladay's agent, Greg Landry, is registered at a Philadelphia hotel and likely negotiating the extension, which needs to be worked out for Halladay to waive his right to veto a trade.

A source in the commissioner's office and familiar with the transaction told the Associated Press that a 72-hour window has been granted to finalize details.

Halladay, 32, won 17 games last season, leading Toronto in innings pitched (239), strikeouts (208) and earned-run average (2.79).

It would be the biggest move by Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos since he took over from the fired J.P. Ricciardi in October.

Ricciardi attempted to trade Halladay to Philadelphia before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline. But Ricciardi's asking price of a handful of top prospects was apparently too high and the Phillies instead acquired Lee from Cleveland.

In July, Ricciardi said "in the vicinity of maybe 10 teams" expressed interest in Halladay, but only "two or three" approached with a "level of seriousness."

Talks with various teams recently picked up steam at baseball's winter meetings in Indianapolis, with Anthopoulos reportedly talking then of three- and four-team trades.

Lee won seven games in 12 regular-season starts with Philadelphia and went 4-0 in five post-season appearances with 33 strikeouts in 40 1/3 innings pitched for the reigning National League champions.

Halladay has spent his entire major-league career with the Blue Jays.
FULL ARTICLE LINK - http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2009/12/14/sp-halladay-trade-report.html

SPORTS ILLUSTRATED.COM ARTICLE LINK - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=sihp

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1292 on: December 15, 2009, 04:31:23 AM »
Blue Jays gonna suck even harder than last year? How is that possible? XD

HOLY SHIT Hideki Matsui and 2009 World Series MVP to the Angels too?? Deals dropping left and right.

also Chien-Ming Wang is a free agent:

YANKEES CUT WANG

Will Wang Decision Come Back to Bite Yanks?


Offline stax

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1293 on: December 15, 2009, 01:43:33 PM »
Blue Jays gonna suck even harder than last year? How is that possible? XD

The Blue Jays have been a very good team for several years, what are you talking about? In 2008 they were the 4th best team by run differential in the AL.

Quote
HOLY SHIT Hideki Matsui and 2009 World Series MVP to the Angels too?? Deals dropping left and right.

And past his prime aging DH with no knees... I don't really think that deal matters much. More surprising is that forces out Vlad, a very similar player who's been with the Angels for a while. Hideki had a solid year last year, but I imagine he's pretty much done.

Quote
also Chien-Ming Wang is a free agent:

YANKEES CUT WANG

Will Wang Decision Come Back to Bite Yanks?



Cutting a 30 year old coming off a major shoulder injury that kept him from the game for 2 seasons who was never that dominant? No. Also your headline reading got it wrong, they didn't "cut ties" with him, they just didn't offer him arbitration because he made $5 million and you can't offer less than 80% of the guy's previous salary in arbitration. They may still resign him as a FA for 1-2 million.

And BTW, the 2 Red Sox deals (signing John Lackey for $85 million/5 and Mike Cameron for $16 million/2) make no sense. With Cameron shifting to left, assumedly, here is my question, since all Jason Bay wanted was a 5th year. (from another forum)

Quote
Step 1. Sox offer Bay $60-65 million/4 years
Step 2. He rejects, saying he wants a 5th year
Step 3. Sox offer another 30 year old $85 million/5 years

WHA?? Why would you not just sign Jason Bay and fix the large hole in your team?

And, taking the $16 million for Cameron now plus roughly another $10 million from the Lackey deal (another year added to the Bay offer would only be $75ish million) is another $26 million of salary to play with. And you can still sign a pretty nice pitcher for that money, if you really want to.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 01:49:08 PM by stax »

Offline Saburo

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M's win The Deal?
« Reply #1294 on: December 15, 2009, 04:43:33 PM »
That three-way deal yesterday (and kudos to K. Rosenthal for "dreaming" up the entire thing) is why the Hot Stove is the GREATEST.

Keep an eye on Seattle: bringing back Junior may have been purely PR but getting Cliff Lee on the cheap ($9 million) to pitch in Safeco gives the M's a vaunted L-R duo.  Yeah it might not work out and Lee (a FA after 2010) might get dumped in mid-season if things don't work out.  But the prospects Seattle weren't exactly Grade-A and they'll get back potentially better kids in a stretch-run deal (or draft pick compensation after the season).

Sometimes you gotta spend your resources and win NOW, goddamnit!

Someone (Pete Abraham?) suggested that the press box in the Bronx just got a LOT less crowded with the departures of both Matsui and Wang.  You think Yomiuri Shimbun takes its banner to The Big A?

Offline Mugen

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1295 on: December 15, 2009, 04:48:32 PM »
Jays is a decent team that got stuck in a dominant division with the Yanks and Red Sox  :doh:

Who the hell did they get in return from Halladay? a bunch of prospects??

Offline Mucca

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1296 on: December 15, 2009, 05:05:27 PM »
The Jays are reportedly getting three prospects from the Phillies - pitcher Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor, and catcher Travis d'Amaud; the Mariners are also supposedly sending a couple of prospects to Philadelphia.

As for the Sox, there are some rumblings that Cameron might play center for them, shifting Ellsbury to left.

Offline stax

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1297 on: December 15, 2009, 08:27:39 PM »
Jays is a decent team that got stuck in a dominant division with the Yanks and Red Sox  :doh:

Who the hell did they get in return from Halladay? a bunch of prospects??

...The Blue Jays GM pulled off a remarkable deal given the situation he was in with Halladay, effectively required to trade him. Drabek is a top-flight prospect.

Offline stax

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Re: M's win The Deal?
« Reply #1298 on: December 15, 2009, 08:31:05 PM »
That three-way deal yesterday (and kudos to K. Rosenthal for "dreaming" up the entire thing) is why the Hot Stove is the GREATEST.

Keep an eye on Seattle: bringing back Junior may have been purely PR but getting Cliff Lee on the cheap ($9 million) to pitch in Safeco gives the M's a vaunted L-R duo.  Yeah it might not work out and Lee (a FA after 2010) might get dumped in mid-season if things don't work out.  But the prospects Seattle weren't exactly Grade-A and they'll get back potentially better kids in a stretch-run deal (or draft pick compensation after the season).

Sometimes you gotta spend your resources and win NOW, goddamnit!

The Ms are really counting on a bad year from the Angels which, given the losses of Lackey and Figgins and sub-par DHing to come from Matsui... Not necessarily the wrong belief. Lee + Figgins is a lot of win-now attitude.

Quote
Someone (Pete Abraham?) suggested that the press box in the Bronx just got a LOT less crowded with the departures of both Matsui and Wang.  You think Yomiuri Shimbun takes its banner to The Big A?

Again, lets be clear, Wang isn't gone yet. He's just a free agent like anyone else. But he was never really the media darling, Matsui may draw out some asian fans and media in LA, yeah.


Offline Mugen

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Re: Offical MLB Thread!
« Reply #1299 on: December 16, 2009, 04:03:32 AM »
The Jays are reportedly getting three prospects from the Phillies - pitcher Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor, and catcher Travis d'Amaud; the Mariners are also supposedly sending a couple of prospects to Philadelphia.

As for the Sox, there are some rumblings that Cameron might play center for them, shifting Ellsbury to left.

how good of the prospects are they? i hope vernon wells can step it up next season

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