Author Topic: Offical MLB Thread! (Read 341594 times)

Saburo · « **Reply #1340 on:** January 05, 2010, 09:46:14 PM »

Joe Posnanski, the Gold standard of sportswriters, weighs in with HIS HOF ballot. After a week of Heyman and Shaughnessy and Chass, we finally have order restored to the universe.

Saburo · « **Reply #1341 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:14:42 PM »

Randy Johnson is holding a conference call tonight to announce his retirement. I never thought he would reach marks like 300 wins but his durability in the last decade sealed the deal, despite not getting his act together until his late 20s.

Bound for Cooperstown in five years.

stax · « **Reply #1342 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:57:58 PM »

Quote from: Saburo on January 05, 2010, 09:46:14 PM

Joe Posnanski, the Gold standard of sportswriters, weighs in with HIS HOF ballot. After a week of Heyman and Shaughnessy and Chass, we finally have order restored to the universe.

I still disagree on Murphy, his one self-labeled emotional and disagreeable pick. His E-Mart case is good and clear though:

Quote

I'll just give you one chart: Here is the complete list of non-Hall of Famers who played in 2,000 games and hit .310 or better and had an on-base percentage better than .400.

1. Edgar Martinez.

Yep. That's it. Every other player who did it -- Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Hornsby, Cobb, Foxx, Musial, Speaker, Heilmann, Collins, Waner, Gehringer, Boggs -- they're all in the Hall of Fame. They're all slam dunk Hall of Famers. Martinez wasn't a good hitter, and he wasn't a great hitter. He was a legendary hitter. To me, that trumps the DH role.

Saburo · « **Reply #1343 on:** January 06, 2010, 12:18:43 AM »

That's fine. I'd still prefer Murphy and his baggage over Jim "The Most Feared Hitter in Baseball with 30 GIDP a year" Rice and Andre "Hall-of-Fame Aura with .320 lifetime OBP" Dawson any time.

Saburo · « **Reply #1344 on:** January 06, 2010, 12:19:36 AM »

Can you believe they're announcing the picks tomorrow?! It's been some time since I've paid this much attention to the process. Thank you, Twitter...

Saburo · « **Reply #1345 on:** January 06, 2010, 02:38:19 AM »

Will Leitch's sublime tweet re. Matt Holliday's status with the Cards:

Whoa, wait: Does this mean left field isn't open for Ankiel? Khhaaaaaaaannnnnnn!!!!!

Best. Movie. Ever.

daigong · « **Reply #1346 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:56:28 AM »

Andre Dawson should get in with his stats, but I got a soft spot for Harold Baines and his years as the DH for Oakland. His numbers are prolific esp. his days in ChiSox.

Happy Trails Randy Johnson!!

Matt Kemp better get his pants into gear!! The Dodgers need help!

stax · « **Reply #1347 on:** January 06, 2010, 03:58:21 PM »

Quote from: daigong on January 06, 2010, 09:56:28 AM

Andre Dawson should get in with his stats, but I got a soft spot for Harold Baines and his years as the DH for Oakland. His numbers are prolific esp. his days in ChiSox.

Happy Trails Randy Johnson!!

Matt Kemp better get his pants into gear!! The Dodgers need help!

In what universe does Andre Dawson and his below league average OBP deserve HoF induction? Andre Dawson made more outs in his career than an average player would in those same plate appearances. That's not a HoFer.

Saburo · « **Reply #1348 on:** January 06, 2010, 04:41:35 PM »

Holy crap, I didn't even realize Jay Mariotti was a member of the BBWAA and keeper of a Wonka Golden Ticket... I mean, a HOF ballot.

Everybody is revealing their selections so why shouldn't he?

I don't watch "Around The Horn" but read the same stories about this dunderhead on DEADSPIN (Roger Ebert's takedown of him last year was the GREATEST). I just never DREAMED Mariotti would treat the Baseball Hall of Fame the same way he treats the rest of society.

Guys like Will Carroll, Rob Neyer and Keith Law have to wait ten (10) years before they get a ballot. But Shit-For-Brains here thinks it's the People's Choice Awards or something. Sheesh!

Saburo · « **Reply #1349 on:** January 06, 2010, 04:59:16 PM »

Quote from: stax on January 06, 2010, 03:58:21 PM

In what universe does Andre Dawson and his below league average OBP deserve HoF induction?

Frankly, ours. Cliches don't die easily.

Of course these are the same creatures that awarded Tim Lincecum this past season's NL Cy Young, despite not being the "winningest" pitcher in the league. Different voting structure, to be sure, but something that I need to grasp onto -- gotta believe in SOMETHING.

Saburo · « **Reply #1350 on:** January 06, 2010, 05:03:18 PM »

Couple people reTweeted Jeff Pearlman's reaction to Randy Johnson's retirement.

Well, you can't win 'em all...

BTW I REALLY hope they inscribe "The Big Unit" on his HOF plaque.

Mucca · « **Reply #1351 on:** January 06, 2010, 07:42:40 PM »

I occasionally watch Around the Horn, and I saw Mariotti and his half-assed "nobody felt like a first ballot Hall of Famer to me, so I voted for nobody!" spiel and I wanted to smack him. Guys like him (and Woody Paige, also on that show) are complete idiots when it comes to stuff like Hall of Fame voting.

Saburo · « **Reply #1352 on:** January 06, 2010, 07:58:24 PM »

The Hall of Fame is an independent organization from MLB and the BBWAA. They should mandate a different voting body. Alas change is feared...

Top of the hour coming up. Let's see who emerges.

Saburo · « **Reply #1353 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:04:47 PM »

Agh... Dawson IN. Blyleven five (5) votes short.

The bad guys win AGAIN.

stax · « **Reply #1354 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:32:10 PM »

Fuck Andre Dawson. Another overrated, below HoF average OFer diluting the pool with a huge pool (Blyleven, Trammell, McGwire, Alomar, Larkin, etc, etc) of deserving choices.

At least Blyleven was only 5 votes shy, so he's getting in next year.

stax · « **Reply #1355 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:39:05 PM »

On Randy Johnson:
One of the 5 greatest pitchers ever. I would say Walter Johnson/Roger Clemens/Greg Maddux/Randy Johnson/Cy Young, with Lefty Grove and a few others nipping right at the heels of that pack. A lot of comparisons have been made with Lefty Grove as to where Randy Johnson stands amongst all-time lefties. A comparison:

RJ: 3.29 ERA (136 ERA+) over 4135.1 IP
LG: 3.06 ERA (148 ERA+) over 3940.2 IP

I definitely understand the argument for Grove over RJ. My issue is a combination of competition level and standards of the era. Their playing time looks similar, but while Grove never led the league in innings Randy did twice. Both were impressive within their era with regards to Ks (Lefty leading the league 5 times, Randy 9 times), but the simple fact is Randy was better able to display that skill. Maybe Lefty could K 10/9 IP, maybe not. But we know Randy can.

Saburo · « **Reply #1356 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:39:54 PM »

Good tweet from Rob Neyer: I wish writers who like Andre Dawson would stop saying that if you didn't support his candidacy, you weren't really paying attention.

stax · « **Reply #1357 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Saburo on January 06, 2010, 08:39:54 PM

Good tweet from Rob Neyer: I wish writers who like Andre Dawson would stop saying that if you didn't support his candidacy, you weren't really paying attention.

I don't what's so complex about the simple fact that a below league average OBP means that Andre Dawson made more outs over the course of his career with the chances given to him than an average baseball player would. More outs THAN AN AVERAGE PLAYER. Hell, he wasn't even a player with a nasty decline or something, he only posted an OBP above .345 (basically the normal league average) in 3 seasons, and one of them (1981) was a partial season.

Yes he had a good (though .279 is hardly great) AVG and a nice .200 ISO, so when he wasn't making outs he was more productive than that average player, but that's such a simple and giant weight to overcome, how the heck is he a HoFer?

And if anyone voted for him in the Ken Griffey-style "Oh, what would he have been without injury"... Put Tony Conigliaro in the Hall.

Mucca · « **Reply #1358 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:59:58 PM »

Re: Lefty Grove.

I don't disagree that RJ was a better pitcher overall, but in regards to strikeouts, RJ had an advantage in that guys now strike out more than ever -- back in Lefty's day, guys were taught that striking out was akin to a mortal sin, and to hit for contact whenever possible (even if it meant a dinky groundout). The most a batter struck out in one season during Lefty's career was 119 (Jimmie Foxx -- Lefty's teammate -- in 1936), with the low being 66 (Jimmie Foxx -- again -- and Ed Morgan, both in 1930, a ridiculous hitter's season). The lowest single season batter strikeout total in RJ's career was 128 (Travis Fryman in the strike-shortened 1994 season).

Having said that, Randy Johnson is still the greatest strikeout pitcher ever.

Also, Baseball Reference shows Lefty leading the AL in Ks seven times, not five.

And re: Andre Dawson. I pretty much called it, but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it!

stax · « **Reply #1359 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:08:06 PM »

Quote from: Mucca on January 06, 2010, 08:59:58 PM

Re: Lefty Grove.

I don't disagree that RJ was a better pitcher overall, but in regards to strikeouts, RJ had an advantage in that guys now strike out more than ever -- back in Lefty's day, guys were taught that striking out was akin to a mortal sin, and to hit for contact whenever possible (even if it meant a dinky groundout). The most a batter struck out in one season during Lefty's career was 119 (Jimmie Foxx -- Lefty's teammate -- in 1936), with the low being 66 (Jimmie Foxx -- again -- and Ed Morgan, both in 1930, a ridiculous hitter's season). The lowest single season batter strikeout total in RJ's career was 128 (Travis Fryman in the strike-shortened 1994 season).

Agreed, that's why I looked at leading within the league, to at least vaguely account for that.

Quote

Also, Baseball Reference shows Lefty leading the AL in Ks seven times, not five.

Sorry, I meant K/9, not simply raw Ks.