The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread

[burglarnoone]

"Yuuna - She's the only 4th gen. member that is shaping into a decent character, and has the looks to go with it, she's a future ace." MY TASTE
"Whether you emphasize variety over music is irrelevant in the case of 4th gen. because they are equally talent-less in both aspects." OBJECTIVE TALENT EVALUATION

Thank you for participating.

Line one = Your opinion
Line two = Your opinion

Attempt to separate them as much as you wish but they are both only your opinion, not fact. Learn the difference so you don't get into so many arguments.

[Jenus]

First of all, the first line is from my impression of the current member's status in a reaction to the 5th gen. audition, where I have stated my OPINION on whether who should stay, in which I pretty much said they all can stay. Now if I was basing it on TALENT which I was in the posts after the SB's post, I would not say they all can stay.

The hint is provided in the statement itself, "Yuuna - She's the only 4th gen. member that is shaping into a decent character, and has the looks to go with it, she's a future ace." I prefer Yuna's reserved personaliy, but that's just my preference and has very little to do with going by talent, and looks is self-explanatory. Even if I was meant to say character as in talent, she clearly does not have the strongest character so that wouldn't make sense.

When I stated that 4th gen. is talent-less, I am going by talent only, and I have stated already why measuring by talent is most valid.

You are wasting time by keep trying to pick on the technicalities of my posts instead of the topic itself, if you are not going to challenge that 4th gen. has more singing talent than Maipuru and Rurika, I suggest you STFU.

[winner]

Hey guys. I know it's fun discussing Idoling!!! members. But this discussion has been a Jenus Q and A session for 2 weeks.
And I don't think it's going anywhere.

As I said before, I'm not nearly as supportive to Idoling!!! compared to most of the members here (like Silverbolt). Who have done so much through the years introducing them to us. Not like it's a secret that I watch a lot of idol groups (ava + sig).
I'm just a regular viewer that's enjoyed the group and their show since the group started.

And here's what I think.
I have members I really like, I have members I don't want in the group. And I think that is a natural thing everyone thinks. Course there may actually be someone who honestly loves all of them.

I liked hearing some of Jenus's thoughts on the members, including 4th gen. I have a totally different view though.
For 4th gen. I had 2 faves since the audition because they were crybabies in the finals.

Yuna, which is super weird sometimes (and I've always pictured her with 2 blue ghost flames floating around her since I first saw her).

And Manami who is all genki (hitting the girls with dodgeballs doesn't get old) and does all the stupid stuff to make us laugh (like her expression when Chika coughed green tea powder all over her. Absolutely my fave scene of 2011!).

Kaoru who I still think is sooo short~ But I also think she looks and acts really cute. The 201007 Gekkan Idoling!!! episode did it the most. When she showed up with the already cute carrot coat, and turned even cuter when Nao transformed her into the Gumby shirt, straw hat and the winning white frame glasses. I bet a lot of people find her average-looking though! I also like how she enjoys following the sempai members and looks like everything they do is so cool.

Chika has turned into Okawa Ai's crazy partner in crime. And the rivalry has made a lot of really funny scenes... mostly ending with Okawa crying like she was 4 years old and her puppy just died.

And Ruka, which I said before was my least fave in 4th gen because I just saw her as a kid. Yet I still saw in a recent episode where she looked much more pro during the performance. It was like 2 seconds, and it won't change my view towards her. But it's these small things that build up and make me want to see if she has changed.

Some people may think my comments are exactly the opposite of their view of these members.
And if someone replied "hey, you are wrong" or "hey, your comments are superficial. You don't even know the members enough" or "stop pretending being a good guy, you're just making half of that up", I'd reply that that is really what I think (Jenus has answered with that... just with 2 pages of comments that instead of making things clearer, turned into reply to a reply to a reply... in point form) and I'd be unhappy someone thinks that of me. And I don't think I should change my view.
As a member of JPH!P for a few years, I don't expect JPH!P members to even say such comments. Because being positive and respecting members is a treasure here. And anyone posting messages without thinking of everyone's feelings when reading it, is a very painful thing for me to see. Internet is a very free discussion area. But more and more people now post messages without giving a second thought, and hurt people.

I hope Jenus understands that all these replies to you from members came from a bunch of fans that were defending 4th gen because they like 4th gen and and Idoling!!!
Which is exactly why you started your discussion. From my comprehending, sorry if I'm not understanding it well enough, you wanted to note why you thought Idoling!!!'s growth had turned into a standstill. 4th gen simply not being as likeable as 1st-3rd gen and not having any skills as an idol and are hopeless. And hoping 5th gen can pick up the slack.
People don't understand your reasoning on this, so they ask why. I think everyone here who did talk about it, knew what they were saying.
But please ask yourself, do you find this discussion interesting or fun anymore?

What I hope to see is:
1. More discussion about Idoling!!! (including you Jenus). Hopefully with less quote cutting in replies. Hell, don't quote. Just comment above, if I want to read the previous message I can press Page Up (I think whatever you guys wrote could've been done in 3 lines. If you think it wouldn't express your whole view, try challenging yourself. This is a forum, not an essay assignment.

2. More positive thinking and respect to forum members (Yes Jenus, that last line there, not cool). Cos that is how JPH!P rolls.
If you want to challenge that, then please leave, until you can. Then come back. Because it is against forum rules

3. Someone actually reading this whole message, because...

4. ... I hope to watch Episode #800. I took 4 hours to type this, after working all day Saturday. Why? Because I think this is easily more important than any anniversary episode.

5. Me not having to type something this long ever.

[SomethingWild]

I suggest you STFU.

Cool down, man.

When I stated that 4th gen. is talent-less, I am going by talent only, and I have stated already why measuring by talent is most valid.

Talent is not really measurable and therefore not valid. I guess we can measure talent to some extent by comparing them, but that is not an objective method.

Besides, idol fandom = all about passion and feelings. It's hard to describe why some girls appeal to some people and others don't.
Why take the fun out of it by being "objective" ?


Like winner said above, I think we're all pretty much done with this discussion, let's move on to something else.

[Jenus]

Yes let's look over the fact that is was SB who questioned my knowledge in the first place, and it was SuzukiRyo that lost his cool and demanded that I leave, and it was burglarnoone that condescendingly asked whether English was my 1st language and kept going on picking on technical stuff.

If you want to preach showing respect, you are directing it at the wrong person. I didn't start anything, I'm merely treating them the way they treated me in response.

For those who keep trying to bring me down, I don't really care with all the irrelevant sideshow crap. But if you want to prove me wrong, tell me just how 4th gen. has more singing talent than Maipuru and Rurika. The discussion really ended when nobody could, not when you label me as the bad guy and proclaim your opinion as fact and righteous.

Talent is not really measurable and therefore not valid. I guess we can measure talent to some extent by comparing them, but that is not an objective method.

Talent is universally identifiable therefore the most valid. Name one that is more objective and valid than talent, it sure ain't taste.

Besides, idol fandom = all about passion and feelings. It's hard to describe why some girls appeal to some people and others don't.
Why take the fun out of it by being "objective" ?

What's the point of starting a discussion without a unified guideline where people can have a proper perspective instead of keep shoving their taste and preference factors? Nobody will agree with anything then.

From my comprehending, sorry if I'm not understanding it well enough, you wanted to note why you thought Idoling!!!'s growth had turned into a standstill. 4th gen simply not being as likeable as 1st-3rd gen and not having any skills as an idol and are hopeless. And hoping 5th gen can pick up the slack.
People don't understand your reasoning on this, so they ask why. I think everyone here who did talk about it, knew what they were saying.
But please ask yourself, do you find this discussion interesting or fun anymore?

I want to clarify on this because I could see how you may have misinterpreted my point that way.

I brought up the singing talent because 4th gen. severely lack it (and not just 4th gen. really), so I felt that singing talent was something Idoling could use in a new member, AM I WRONG TO SAY THAT? Instead of being mad and focusing only on what I said about 4th gen., consider that as well, and point out exactly how I am wrong in saying that if you can.

Again, how all this talent talk translates into being popular and such is a whole another matter and I have pointed that out.

My main point here is simply hoping for a TALENTED new member, especially if you all seem to not object to the fact that younger members don't stack up to Maipuru and Rurika? Why is that so wrong?

I think most responses have become more of targeting me instead of tackling the actual topic at hand.

You won't convince me otherwise with such a tactic.

[harlock]

ohhay, Kaoru's pretty awesome, right? No?

[winner]

^hehe~

And as I said, everybody who posted knew what they were saying. They themselves know if they were honestly defending 4th gen, showing their own views, being curious about your view, testing your views, didn't understand what you said at all, didn't read and replied, or were just being a lame asshole.

And that is why I'm telling everybody to READ THESE RULES.

Not just Jenus. Everybody.
Not just the past 5-6 posters. Everybody. Including the forum moderators who wrote it.

I know Jenus.
And you're not wrong. I liked that post, and I remember a few people giving a thanks for it.
Since the show started before their single, Idoling!!! has never had any members with insane singing skills. And the next few gens have not focused in that area. That is a fact.
But I actually thought them covering other people's songs while singing live, even though it had a few bad notes here and there, was an early charm of the group. I'm into old-school.
5th gen may give the needed boost in the singing department. But they can just as easily be choosing more variety-type girls to keep the show going, because they cannot afford losing in that area.

Jenus. I think I said all I wanted in the previous message.
I want to see you contributing to discussions. And I wanted to continue talking about the Maipuru/Rurika thing too (us 2 could just keep on replying "We're not worthy~~".
You can wait here for someone else's reply and keep discussing this 4th gen thing (I have absolutely no idea why). Just read our posts for a bit. And  join in this and other Idoling!!! discussions whenever too.

But whatever. Just keep on supporting Idoling!!! I'm sure you will.

[SuzukiRyo]

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Yazawa and Manami got the 3rd and 4th post on TBS Rank Oukoku Idol DVD ranking.

[Hatix]

But I actually thought them covering other people's songs while singing live, even though it had a few bad notes here and there, was an early charm of the group. I'm into old-school.

In fact, I think Idoling!!! is one of the few idol group who actually sing live 99% of the time, and who have a live band at their concerts, and who play instruments themselves from time to time. That's another thing that I find good about Idoling!!! 
Okay, they may sound a bit out of tune sometimes and not always with a strong voice because they always sing live, but at least they're doing it!
And I'm not blaming any other groups for not singing live, I'm just saying that I like it and I think it's got courage that Idoling!!! almost always sing live.
I think they should do that again sometimes, singing old cover songs. Okay, we have shinatsubu request and TIF, but those are always individuals or small groups.
But then again, that's counter-productive for Idoling!!!'s own songs

And congrats to Yazawa & Manami   

[Jenus]

Since the show started before their single, Idoling!!! has never had any members with insane singing skills. And the next few gens have not focused in that area. That is a fact.
But I actually thought them covering other people's songs while singing live, even though it had a few bad notes here and there, was an early charm of the group. I'm into old-school.

When Idoling first started out, there was no identity to live up to, no standards being set as of yet, therefore it would be ridiculous for anyone to say that Idoling should be this or that since nobody really knew what the group was going to be like. Today's Idoling has a distinct flavor to them, they have a very strong variety side, as well as the performance side, now I have never touched upon the variety side in my discussion. As far as the performance side goes, Idoling has set a certain standard right now with Maipuru and Rurika that is very high level. It's never a good thing to lose an edge by keep adding new members that have no talent to sustain that level whether the staff thinks it's important or not, that's just a logical way of thinking. As long as they are going to keep releasing singles and perform lives, singing talent can't be overlooked considering the current status of Idoling as a performance group. Whether you think Idoling doesn't have to be this all-star singing sensation group or not is not of my concern because it's just your taste speaking. Idoling sings in live voice unlike most other idol groups, so it doesn't hurt to have members that can sing than not having any. I'm not just emphasizing singing talent out of need, it has practical implications like that also. If Idoling was a lip-sync group then I wouldn't even have this discussion. Idoling's current popularity has to do with variety as well as music aspect (I tend to believe music aspect is far bigger because it gets more mainstream exposure), so to say that singing talent is not important just because of what you think of Idoling is the same as dismissing the current Idoling's identity altogether.

As far as the variety aspect goes, I don't feel the need to address it as much because as inept as 4th gen. may be in that as well, Idoling as a whole do not lack it as badly. Honestly, I haven't found any other idol groups that is more entertaining than Idoling, in fact it's not even close. I would much prefer to see a new member have singing talent rather than being strong in variety since it may take more time for the new member to get recognition in the variety department because it's probably the strongest aspect.

[SuzukiRyo]

Shoujo Fuantei with Ito Ichiro.
I really want them to perform this song again, but maybe it is impossible without Ikkun.



Moteki no Uta at Tokyo Earthride 2010.
The costume, the stage, the event. This is what I like most about Idoling!!!

[Hatix]

Ow yes, give me Shoujo Fuenta any time. It's such a hidden gem. I had seen that episode in my early Idoling!!! days and I didn't know it was an original song. I thought it was a song by Ichiro they covered with him and I forgot all about it. It wasn't until quite some time later that I read that it was an original song featuring Idoling!!! on a solo record of Ichiro, and the fact that it was only performed live once. Still think it's a very good song.
They should invite Ichiro as a surprise guest at the next Live and do this song again, that would be awesome! 

[muppet]

鈴木さん、UPをありがとうございました！Ikkun and Idoling!!! together is for sure a special moment.

Romanvalde2 is YouTube poster who creates a lot of great OPV tributes to various pop soloists and Idol groups, and here is the Romanvalde2 tribute to Idoling!!! :

[winner]

Ow yes, give me Shoujo Fuenta any time. It's such a hidden gem. I had seen that episode in my early Idoling!!! days and I didn't know it was an original song.

Me too.
Totally want more collabs like this.

[kei_86]

oooh have we come into OPV now? whee




This is probably my favorite OPV for idoling ever... period.



I might not be much of a 1st gen fan but watching these OPV makes your heart all warm and fuzzy 

[Hatix]

I like that second one very much! I think I have the perfect title for that OPV: "この９人"


It got me an idea, but it'll probably be a lot of work... 

[wq12wq12]

I have seen the mad of モテ期のうた many times.

I really like it.

[Blade Hunter]

Sucks to be Jenus. 4th gen members won't be leaving anytime soon and cranky Rumi is long gone.

[kei_86]

I have seen the mad of モテ期のうた many times.

I really like it.

haha true enough, it is really a good OPV. Plus it really shows you how weird is the lyric actually Too bad I'm not good with video editing otherwise I'd be doing one my own

[Jenus]

Sucks to be Jenus. 4th gen members won't be leaving anytime soon and cranky Rumi is long gone.

Why is that when I said I rather have them all stay in the very first post? Just because they don't have any talent doesn't mean I don't like them, I actually like Yuna as an idol and hope she can be an ace someday. I acknowledge Rumi's talent as an idol but I don't necessarily like her either.

There used to be so many Idoling OPVs on YouTube but now they are all gone, what happened? Probably copyright thing? Too bad.