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Author Topic: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread  (Read 754873 times)

Offline hellguard89

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1080 on: October 03, 2011, 06:20:04 PM »
I wonder if we are going to get any good talents from this audition with there being so many idol groups right now. Surely the good talents will try and aim for the 48 groups rather than the lesser known Idoling!!!. Let's face it, there are many more attractive proposition than Idoling!!!.

I bet we are going to get a few rejects from recent auditions(from the top of my head Smileage/HKT48/maybe Fairies as well, not sure if they had an audition). They really need to discover a hidden gem and polish it, going along with Idoling!!! objective as an idol nurture group.

Maybe as well, if someone is going to graduate, she will have fulfilled her potential and should be able to survive on their own as a full-fledged idol.

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1081 on: October 03, 2011, 07:50:51 PM »
Well if 4th gen. audition was of any indication in terms of attracting top talent, it doesn't look very promising for sure, that is why I feel that they should go the 3rd gen. audition route and pick from the agency talents instead because at least some of those talents are being scouted by the agency instead of shoving their audition application everywhere just to make it into the industry when they clearly don't have what it takes. I mean it' s no coincidence that 1st gen. turned out to have such a high success rate in terms of talent because Maipuru, Tonooka, and Rurika are scouted talents by their agencies, yeah what a surprise that they turned out to have the most talent.

While I totally understand that Idoling as a show is about grooming ordinary girls into becoming idols, I feel that the current group has outgrown the show's original intent, Idoling has become an established brand now, they are not some bunch of unknown amateurs trying to become top idols, I mean the popular members already rank at the top of sales charts in their individual merchandise already. When 4th gen. joined, the gap between them and the older members were so evident that it made the whole group out of sync for a while, and older members had to pick up a lot of slack, I don't want to see that again because it really lowers the standards that the current group worked so hard to achieve thus far.

What really hurt the most about 4th gen. to me is that not only they lack any sort of talking skill, they are not naturally funny types, when you look at 3rd gen. Okawa and Yurippe are naturally funny people, and that goes a long way in covering up their shortcomings in verbal skill.

It's VERY CRUCIAL that 5th gen. at least is someone who is naturally funny, naturally can talk with some sense, and CAN SING.

I really don't think the staff can make the same mistake they've made in picking 4th gen. and continue Idoling success with such lack of talent and just going for the looks and youth, otherwise Idoling will be reduced to just another idol group without any redeeming qualities. It's also very possible that 5th gen. is also the last gen. for Idoling so I'm hoping that they make a good decision.

Offline mode107

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1082 on: October 08, 2011, 01:39:14 AM »
Just stumbled upon this today

"Under the beautiful blue sky"

Offline Silverbolt

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1083 on: October 09, 2011, 06:20:04 PM »
I've been out of the loop for a long time, but y'all are pulling me back in...

First off, let's make something clear... Idoling!!!'s "graduations" are not like the "graduations" of other idol groups. Ever wonder why graduations/auditions always happen around March or April? It's all about contracts. The members are on yearly contracts that start in April and end in March. The only reason why someone would leave is if the member or staff decided not to renew a contract.

As crazy as the Idoling!!! staff is, they have always seemed to be a very practical group. There aren't many practical reasons for kicking a member out of a group, but one of those would be to cut costs. I highly doubt that the group is hurting financially because, if they were, why would they hold auditions for new members? As useless as some of the current members may seem, they would still sell more merchandise than any new members would at first. New members are a high-cost, high-risk investment that you hope pays off in the long run.

That leaves it up to the members themselves, which is bad because that means anyone could leave. If you look at the list of people who have left Idoling!!!, it's all people who got on a different wavelength from the rest of the group. Kato started feeling too old. Koizumi became a menace backstage. Eto and Takiguchi found different goals. Michelle never really clicked with the others. It's basically like a circle of friends. Sometimes you just don't want to hang out with them anymore. If you keep that in mind, it becomes less like "Who should leave?" and more like "Who wants to leave?"

I'm not a big fan of the whole new member/graduation process that has become so common. I won't go on rambling about how I think 2nd gen broke the group chemistry, as I know many of you have heard it from me before. But, after riding with Idoling!!! during the 1st gen era, I'm a big believer in retaining and developing your members to find their potential. If you want to talk about creating something out of nothing, watch the first episodes of Idoling!!! and then watch episodes from the end of the 1st gen era. The difference is incredible. But, I know that new members and graduations have become inevitable with Idoling!!!, so I don't really have a choice but to roll with it.

Looking at it from the variety angle, you could say that Idoling!!! can't afford to lose people like Yazawa, Asahi, Kikuchi, and Okawa, and that they need to find more people like them. But, in my opinion, it's people like them who are preventing the other members from developing their characters because they take up all of the time. Time is the keyword here. I find it difficult to say that variety is Idoling!!!'s most important aspect when they're doing 5 episodes every 2 weeks, and 2 of those are Shinahachi Live episodes. They're not giving the members nearly enough time to shine, especially when a lot of episodes nowadays have almost all of the members. 1st gen had 326 episodes to find and develop their characters, and only a handful of those were concert episodes. That's why even Tonooka and Yokoyama had many great moments on the variety show. I think if you took the 1st gen members when they started and threw them into the group now, many of them would struggle just like the 4th gen members have. If they bring in new members who are interesting, then that just takes time away from the current variety aces and makes the others just fade further into obscurity. What they really need is to stop showing Shinahachi Live episodes and maybe even change the schedule back to at least 4 episodes per week.

Now, from the musical standpoint... It's pretty straightforward. I hope that none of the key singers leave, and I hope they bring in great singers for 5th gen. That's it. Anyway... Let me go on a little rant about Idoling!!!'s singing... (as if this post isn't long enough)

I'm gonna say a lot of things people don't agree with because I'm really weird when it comes to music. I don't know anything about the technical aspects of music, but different music and singers touch me in different ways, so I "feel" my way through it. But, anyway... In my opinion, Idoling!!! was at its peak vocally during the 2nd gen era. I've thought long and hard about why I feel that way, and I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to 2 things. First, back during the 2nd gen era, Idoling!!! sounded more unified as a group when they sang in harmony. The current group sounds like they're all competing and singing on top of each other. But, they did lack consistency during the 2nd gen era... Sometimes, they'd sound just like the current group. The only real way to fix this is through training, which probably isn't gonna happen.

Now, what's that second thing? I guess the best word to describe it would be soul. It's that singing that really comes from deep inside and makes the listener feel the passion that comes with the words. It's easy to confuse soul and power, but powerful singing doesn't have nearly the same impact that soulful singing does. The only singers who brought a lot of soul into their singing were Rumi Koizumi and Michelle Miki. Ever since those two left, the group has been lacking soul, and it seems like they're trying to compensate for it with power. Rurika Yokoyama and Yui Kawamura can sing with lots of smack-you-in-the-face power, which is good, but it doesn't touch my heart like Rumi Koizumi's soulful voice does. Everyone, especially newer fans, should go back and watch the Roman Hikou performance from episode #412. The vocals in that performance were incredible for a group that, let's face it, has low standards for singing.

I hate to admit it, but I don't like listening to Maipuru when she sings the solo for Konayuki ga Mau Machinami de at concerts. It sounds like she's trying to force something that she can't do. Of course, it sounds good on the track, but everyone sounds good after some tuning. There's a reason why Koizumi got the big climax solo in Omoi no Uta, and it's not because she's a brat who demanded the spotlight. It's because you need soul to really nail those big climaxes.

Honestly, I think they already have a suitable replacement for Koizumi... She came from the same talent agency... No, not Hashimoto... I'm talking about Hitomi Miyake. She does a decent job with Koizumi's lines in Snow celebration. They should send her to vocal training and develop her in that direction. She's like one of those kids who doesn't do anything because nobody tells her to do anything. I think a little direction would pay off big with this one.

Anyway, going back to 5th gen and possible graduations... I've danced around the topic without really going into any specifics on who I think is leaving, and what kind of people I want to see joining. But, whenever I think about it, all I want to say is this: 「この9人」
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 06:26:47 PM by Silverbolt »

Offline SuzukiRyo

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1084 on: October 09, 2011, 07:35:03 PM »
Looking at it from the variety angle, you could say that Idoling!!! can't afford to lose people like Yazawa, Asahi, Kikuchi, and Okawa, and that they need to find more people like them. But, in my opinion, it's people like them who are preventing the other members from developing their characters because they take up all of the time.

exactly.

Offline Hatix

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1085 on: October 09, 2011, 08:09:22 PM »
Basically it comes down to the same thing that everybody keeps saying (I wonder if the Japanese fans think the same thing):

More variety, less Shinahachi on TV !!!

Keep Shinahachi as a concert experience.
Make more variety episodes and use smaller groups of members per episode so each member gets more chances and experience, like they used to do before 4th gen.
I sure wouldn't mind them going to 4 eps a week, but why not start with 3 times EACH week. Now it's always alternating between 2 and 3 episode a week.
I have to agree with SB that 1st gen have had much more experience to grow in a smaller group, also because they had 5 episodes every week, which is also why they were able to wrap up 300+ episodes on their. But then again contracts for only 9 members leaves more budget for the shows...


And indeed: everything in Japan ends in March and starts in April because the Japanese fiscal year is like that, which is also why school starts in April and TV shows get a fresh budget.

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1086 on: October 10, 2011, 02:09:43 AM »
Nice to see a familiar face back on here SB, now it'd be an honor to let me tackle some of your interesting points if I could not necessarily as a counter-point, but more of just adding my own take on it.

First off, let's make something clear... Idoling!!!'s "graduations" are not like the "graduations" of other idol groups. Ever wonder why graduations/auditions always happen around March or April? It's all about contracts. The members are on yearly contracts that start in April and end in March. The only reason why someone would leave is if the member or staff decided not to renew a contract.
I tend to believe that it's more than just a business decision for the members' graduation, because I don't see any reason for them to force out half the 1st gen. members merely to cut costs then turn around and add new members, makes no sense. I think it has more to do with how the members are coping as a team-player, and whether they are being a positive influence towards the group. Basically the staff doesn't want rotten apples in the group.

That leaves it up to the members themselves, which is bad because that means anyone could leave. If you look at the list of people who have left Idoling!!!, it's all people who got on a different wavelength from the rest of the group. Kato started feeling too old. Koizumi became a menace backstage. Eto and Takiguchi found different goals. Michelle never really clicked with the others. It's basically like a circle of friends. Sometimes you just don't want to hang out with them anymore. If you keep that in mind, it becomes less like "Who should leave?" and more like "Who wants to leave?"
I don't think it's bad at all that the decision to graduate is up to the members because so far none of them is showing signs that they even want to leave, probably realizing that quitting Idoling!!! is the kiss of death as far as their livelihood in show business is concerned. Out of the members that graduated, I'm only certain that Rumi and Michelle are the only ones who had the luxury to make a decision to quit, I'm rather convinced that the rest were forced out because they didn't fit in with the evolving group. Rumi quit due to health reasons, and while she may have had clashes with other members I don't think it was serious enough that staff would fire her. I think Kato didn't even try to get along with 2nd gen. and it cost her job. Eto was probably becoming a bit too big-headed for her own good if it wasn't any more obvious, and Takiguchi was just heading towards something entirely un-idol-like. The fact that Eto and Takiguchi aren't visually spectacular probably made the decision even easier for the staff. And let's not forget that Kato, Eto, and Takiguchi are all sub-par singers. I think Michelle made the decision to quit because she got along fine with other members, Michelle is a classic popular type who is rich and stylish, so why wouldn't the other members not want to hang around with her? Teenage girls love such types. Michelle probably didn't believe that being an idol is for her, and it makes sense knowing what her personality is like as well as her multi-cultural background.

But if I had to predict one member that the staff is trying to get rid of, it would be Fonchi, because she was dissed hardcore in Gakkyukaing episode. Who would want to stay when you are being singled out by the staff like that? I'd feel so bad for Fonchi if she does leave because of that. Looking back on it, it's by far the most awkward and uncomfortable moment this past year.

I'm not a big fan of the whole new member/graduation process that has become so common. I won't go on rambling about how I think 2nd gen broke the group chemistry, as I know many of you have heard it from me before. But, after riding with Idoling!!! during the 1st gen era, I'm a big believer in retaining and developing your members to find their potential. If you want to talk about creating something out of nothing, watch the first episodes of Idoling!!! and then watch episodes from the end of the 1st gen era. The difference is incredible. But, I know that new members and graduations have become inevitable with Idoling!!!, so I don't really have a choice but to roll with it.
Besides the first wave of lay-offs, I think Idoling for the most part is exercising the retain & develop the members approach, seeing no member has graduated for close to 3 years now. And who knows if anybody would graduate next year even after the 5th gen. is added, because nobody is showing any signs that they want to quit, that is if it is based on the belief that the decision is indeed up to the member. I'm very interested in how this will turn out though because it'll answer a lot of questions regarding who really does make the decision to graduate, although it seems clear based on the past 3 years that the members get to stick around as long as they don't get on the staff's bad side.

Looking at it from the variety angle, you could say that Idoling!!! can't afford to lose people like Yazawa, Asahi, Kikuchi, and Okawa, and that they need to find more people like them. But, in my opinion, it's people like them who are preventing the other members from developing their characters because they take up all of the time. Time is the keyword here. I find it difficult to say that variety is Idoling!!!'s most important aspect when they're doing 5 episodes every 2 weeks, and 2 of those are Shinahachi Live episodes. They're not giving the members nearly enough time to shine, especially when a lot of episodes nowadays have almost all of the members. 1st gen had 326 episodes to find and develop their characters, and only a handful of those were concert episodes. That's why even Tonooka and Yokoyama had many great moments on the variety show. I think if you took the 1st gen members when they started and threw them into the group now, many of them would struggle just like the 4th gen members have. If they bring in new members who are interesting, then that just takes time away from the current variety aces and makes the others just fade further into obscurity. What they really need is to stop showing Shinahachi Live episodes and maybe even change the schedule back to at least 4 episodes per week.
This part is where I completely disagree with you SB with all due respect. Is 4th gen. getting their fair share of time compared to when there was only 1st gen.? Of course not, but at the same time 2nd gen. was faced with the same dilemma as well as the 3rd gen., yet the strong characters found their way to get the spotlight regardless so I just find it a bogus excuse whenever I hear that 4th gen. is not getting enough camera time to shine. And while the CS show may be the main stage, it's not the only one for the members to shine and get noticed by the fans, there's uRa segments, Gekkan Idoling, Shinahachi live, Numbering live, seasonal DVDs, radio shows, various other events etc., and when I take all of that into account in evaluating the 4th gen. there's not much I can say about them, they just don't have as much talent that 3rd gen. and some 2nd gen. members possess. You may say that Yokoyama and Tonooka add nothing to the variety aspect (I'm not so sure about that either, Yokoyama clearly has the ability to capture an audience as she has done at DTDX and Heyx3, and Tonooka simply abandoned variety by choice, so she can be entertaining if she chooses to and have so in the past), but they make up for it ten-fold with their singing prowess, and I just can't say the same for 4th gen. because they don't have a saving grace factor, they just don't stand out at anything. I don't think Nomoto and Ojima being good at dodgeball is going to cut it, they need to show a lot more. I'm not sure what you were trying to say at the end, it sounds like a contradiction. You say that 4th gen. has no screen time to shine, but then state right after that new members with talent will overshadow the current members. Doesn't that admit to the fact that 4th gen. is no good?

I'm gonna say a lot of things people don't agree with because I'm really weird when it comes to music. I don't know anything about the technical aspects of music, but different music and singers touch me in different ways, so I "feel" my way through it. But, anyway... In my opinion, Idoling!!! was at its peak vocally during the 2nd gen era. I've thought long and hard about why I feel that way, and I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to 2 things. First, back during the 2nd gen era, Idoling!!! sounded more unified as a group when they sang in harmony. The current group sounds like they're all competing and singing on top of each other. But, they did lack consistency during the 2nd gen era... Sometimes, they'd sound just like the current group. The only real way to fix this is through training, which probably isn't gonna happen.
It would be more reasonable if you just stated that you like the songs from that period better and I would not argue about such an opinion at all. I simply can't agree that 2nd gen. era was their peak. And it's not just about 3rd gen. either, 1st and 2nd gen. have progressed considerably since the 2nd gen. era as well, and the singles that came after the 2nd gen. era clearly are more polished and sounds better, in fact it's not even a comparison. 2nd gen. era songs for the most part sound amateurish. I would say the peak was prior to 4th gen. joining, because 4th gen. lowered the vocal level of the entire group significantly, not to mention steer the musical direction to the superficial style in catering to the youthful image of 4th gen. OMG what have you done, stupid staff!! No more kiddie-pop songs!!!

Now, what's that second thing? I guess the best word to describe it would be soul. It's that singing that really comes from deep inside and makes the listener feel the passion that comes with the words. It's easy to confuse soul and power, but powerful singing doesn't have nearly the same impact that soulful singing does. The only singers who brought a lot of soul into their singing were Rumi Koizumi and Michelle Miki. Ever since those two left, the group has been lacking soul, and it seems like they're trying to compensate for it with power. Rurika Yokoyama and Yui Kawamura can sing with lots of smack-you-in-the-face power, which is good, but it doesn't touch my heart like Rumi Koizumi's soulful voice does. Everyone, especially newer fans, should go back and watch the Roman Hikou performance from episode #412. The vocals in that performance were incredible for a group that, let's face it, has low standards for singing.
I agree that Yokoyama and Kawamura probably sings without even thinking about the lyrics and its meaning, but I'm not so sure about Rumi and Michelle of all people only having the soul of singing. Rumi does sing with emotion but I don't know if that is enough to qualify her as being a soulful singer, because first of all, she's still a pedestrian singer skill-wise and such skill-level will not capture my heart. I have no opinion on Michelle, haven't seen her sing enough solo to really gauge anything about her singing soul.

I hate to admit it, but I don't like listening to Maipuru when she sings the solo for Konayuki ga Mau Machinami de at concerts. It sounds like she's trying to force something that she can't do. Of course, it sounds good on the track, but everyone sounds good after some tuning. There's a reason why Koizumi got the big climax solo in Omoi no Uta, and it's not because she's a brat who demanded the spotlight. It's because you need soul to really nail those big climaxes.
I stand corrected, I think I disagree with this part the most, I like Rumi's singing voice too, but skill-wise, she's very pedestrian, and not even close to what Maipuru can do with her singing. I think it's too convenient for you to say that Rumi has soul but Maipuru doesn't just because you don't like Maipuru's singing voice. I'm not even sure why you would diss Maipuru for, all you had to say was you like Rumi's singing the most. And judging Maipuru's singing on one line of a song is rather puzzling, wouldn't it be more fair and accurate to judge her singing by her solos like Yuusha No Yuutsu? I wonder if Rumi can sing solo entirely for that song without gasping for oxygen. Omoi no Uta indeed is a great song, but it didn't move me as much as 3dome no Kinenbi did because the difference in the vocals' skill-wise is like night and day.

Honestly, I think they already have a suitable replacement for Koizumi... She came from the same talent agency... No, not Hashimoto... I'm talking about Hitomi Miyake. She does a decent job with Koizumi's lines in Snow celebration. They should send her to vocal training and develop her in that direction. She's like one of those kids who doesn't do anything because nobody tells her to do anything. I think a little direction would pay off big with this one.
Miyake does not have strong enough singing voice, and no training will make her into a singing diva that of Maipuru or even Rumi since it takes more than a strong vocal to be a great singer. Miyake will never catch up to Maipuru's level in her lifetime even if she had the talent. I'm sorry but this is just a silly suggestion that is very unrealistic. Besides, Miyake isn't some uninterested person who does nothing, she's the best pastry baker of the group, and while it's not much, her strengths still lie with the variety aspect more so than the live stage because she just doesn't have the presence of a diva. Miyake seems to want to pursue acting herself, but she has to show some work sample for me to comment on that.

If there's a member you'd want to groom into a diva, no one is better candidate than Yurippe who is already a much better singer than Miyake is, and unlike Miyake, Yurippe has potential for growth. I look for Yurippe to take more part in live stage and eventually become one of the aces.

Offline Silverbolt

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1087 on: October 10, 2011, 07:37:41 AM »
Here we go. This is what I was aiming for. This thread needs some nice discussion to bring it back to life. :)

I tend to believe that it's more than just a business decision for the members' graduation, because I don't see any reason for them to force out half the 1st gen. members merely to cut costs then turn around and add new members, makes no sense. I think it has more to do with how the members are coping as a team-player, and whether they are being a positive influence towards the group. Basically the staff doesn't want rotten apples in the group.
That's actually what I was trying to say. The Idoling!!! staff strikes me as being a very practical group, and thus, they make practical decisions that make sense. Business-wise, it doesn't make sense to push anyone out of the group. But, I don't agree that they would remove a member based on their compatibility and influences on the other members of the group. If they cared about the group's unity and chemistry, the would have never added new members. Even if a rotten apple develops in the group, it's much more economical to take disciplinary action and try to correct the misbehaving member, rather than just get rid of her. Besides, it's not really the Japanese way to just fire somebody and force them to leave. Instead, they make work conditions unfavorable to the employee until they decide to leave on their own. That's why I believe the decision to "graduate" is decided almost entirely by the members themselves.

I don't think it's bad at all that the decision to graduate is up to the members because so far none of them is showing signs that they even want to leave, probably realizing that quitting Idoling!!! is the kiss of death as far as their livelihood in show business is concerned. Out of the members that graduated, I'm only certain that Rumi and Michelle are the only ones who had the luxury to make a decision to quit, I'm rather convinced that the rest were forced out because they didn't fit in with the evolving group. Rumi quit due to health reasons, and while she may have had clashes with other members I don't think it was serious enough that staff would fire her. I think Kato didn't even try to get along with 2nd gen. and it cost her job. Eto was probably becoming a bit too big-headed for her own good if it wasn't any more obvious, and Takiguchi was just heading towards something entirely un-idol-like. The fact that Eto and Takiguchi aren't visually spectacular probably made the decision even easier for the staff. And let's not forget that Kato, Eto, and Takiguchi are all sub-par singers. I think Michelle made the decision to quit because she got along fine with other members, Michelle is a classic popular type who is rich and stylish, so why wouldn't the other members not want to hang around with her? Teenage girls love such types. Michelle probably didn't believe that being an idol is for her, and it makes sense knowing what her personality is like as well as her multi-cultural background.
The only reason why I said I think it's bad is because any member could leave at any given time. We really don't have any idea what goes on inside each members' head. But, like I said above, I don't believe that the staff would force anyone out of the group. A lot of the other things you said in this paragraph make it seem like you aren't familiar with the 2nd gen era.

They stated that Rumi left for "health reasons," but anyone who was a fan at the time knows that was complete BS. Rumi had a huge ego and an extremely volatile personality that could turn sour at any moment. Being the honest group that Idoling!!! is, many of the conflicts between Rumi and the other members frequently came to light on the TV show. Even at the 10th Live, Rurika mentioned something about getting into an argument with Rumi right before the 1st live. But, the bond that the 1st gen members built was so strong that even Rumi's bratty personality wasn't enough to break it. Even now, she still hangs out with the other 1st gen members outside of work. But, if you think about her personality, she's exactly the type who would get angry about a bunch of new kids coming in and riding on her coattail. By bringing in the 2nd gen members, the staff basically said, we can't be successful with just the 9 of you. Her pride was hurt. The timing of her graduation makes me believe that the staff started looking for the 3rd gen members, and that's what caused her to say enough is enough and decide to leave even before reaching the end of the contract.

Your statement about Kato couldn't be more wrong. Saya-nee was one of the most accepting of the 2nd gen. She got along well with them, and they all looked up to her like a big sister, hence the nickname "Saya-nee". But, there was always a generational gap between her and the younger members, and it probably became too big of an issue in her mind. It also didn't help that it was constantly brought up on the TV show. With her close friend Rumi gone, and even younger members coming in with the 3rd gen, she probably felt that it was time to move on.

Eto was a little brat, and Takiguchi was the exact opposite of an idol, but those are the characters that made them successful within Idoling!!! It wouldn't make sense for them to leave for those reasons. They most likely left Idoling!!! just because they had other plans. Eto wanted to become an actress, and Takiguchi was focusing more and more on comedy. The two of them even became a comedy duo shortly after leaving Idoling!!!

Michelle was the type who would be popular... among Western people. She was rich and stylish, but that also made her seem somewhat unapproachable. There was too much of a cultural gap between her and the other members, and it always made her seem separate from the rest of the group. There were so many times when her lack of knowledge of the Japanese language interfered with her ability to participate on the show. Adding her to the group was a gimmick, and it wasn't succeeding, so she left.

But if I had to predict one member that the staff is trying to get rid of, it would be Fonchi, because she was dissed hardcore in Gakkyukaing episode. Who would want to stay when you are being singled out by the staff like that? I'd feel so bad for Fonchi if she does leave because of that. Looking back on it, it's by far the most awkward and uncomfortable moment this past year.
The staff's not trying to get rid of her. They're looking for ways to motivate her because it's clear that she has lost her passion for Idoling!!! Sometimes, when your employees are underperforming, you have to call them out on it to light a fire under them. She keeps dropping hints that she wants to leave, and in my opinion, she's the most likely to leave when March comes.

Besides the first wave of lay-offs, I think Idoling for the most part is exercising the retain & develop the members approach, seeing no member has graduated for close to 3 years now. And who knows if anybody would graduate next year even after the 5th gen. is added, because nobody is showing any signs that they want to quit, that is if it is based on the belief that the decision is indeed up to the member. I'm very interested in how this will turn out though because it'll answer a lot of questions regarding who really does make the decision to graduate, although it seems clear based on the past 3 years that the members get to stick around as long as they don't get on the staff's bad side.
I agree for the most part. Idoling!!! has been doing a much better job of retaining their existing members than most other idol groups do. But, I still believe that, if they never added the 2nd gen members, all 9 of the 1st gen members would have stayed until the very end, which I will admit, might have been a few years ago if they stayed that way. Idoling!!! 2013 will be the ultimate proof for that belief.

This part is where I completely disagree with you SB with all due respect. Is 4th gen. getting their fair share of time compared to when there was only 1st gen.? Of course not, but at the same time 2nd gen. was faced with the same dilemma as well as the 3rd gen., yet the strong characters found their way to get the spotlight regardless so I just find it a bogus excuse whenever I hear that 4th gen. is not getting enough camera time to shine. And while the CS show may be the main stage, it's not the only one for the members to shine and get noticed by the fans, there's uRa segments, Gekkan Idoling, Shinahachi live, Numbering live, seasonal DVDs, radio shows, various other events etc., and when I take all of that into account in evaluating the 4th gen. there's not much I can say about them, they just don't have as much talent that 3rd gen. and some 2nd gen. members possess. You may say that Yokoyama and Tonooka add nothing to the variety aspect (I'm not so sure about that either, Yokoyama clearly has the ability to capture an audience as she has done at DTDX and Heyx3, and Tonooka simply abandoned variety by choice, so she can be entertaining if she chooses to and have so in the past), but they make up for it ten-fold with their singing prowess, and I just can't say the same for 4th gen. because they don't have a saving grace factor, they just don't stand out at anything. I don't think Nomoto and Ojima being good at dodgeball is going to cut it, they need to show a lot more. I'm not sure what you were trying to say at the end, it sounds like a contradiction. You say that 4th gen. has no screen time to shine, but then state right after that new members with talent will overshadow the current members. Doesn't that admit to the fact that 4th gen. is no good?
I'm not saying that 4th gen is good. I will wholeheartedly agree with you when you say that 3rd gen is better than 4th gen. What I'm saying is, there's no reason why 4th gen can't be good. Developing characters takes time and attention. Some people are naturally better and quicker at finding their spots than others. I never said that Tonooka and Yokoyama bring nothing to the variety show. I said they were able to have great moments because they were given the proper time and attention needed to find their niches on the variety show. The point I was trying to make was, even though many of the 1st gen members seemed just as dull and boring as the 4th gen members do, every 1st gen member, 1 through 9, found their own little character on the TV show, and it's because each was given enough time and attention to find it. There was no "extra baggage" that so many people seem to complain about with the current roster. Not being able to stand out from a large group is different from not being an interesting person. Almost everybody has something interesting to bring to the table. Sometimes, you just have to dig deeper to find it.

Let's do some quick math... 2nd gen had roughly 160 episodes (many of which featured just the 2nd gen), 14 Boukenoung episodes, Idoling!!! Nikki, uRa Idoling!!!, radio shows, etc. Yet, none of them really settled into their characters until the 1st gen members graduated. Even the incredible Amimi really didn't become the monster that she is until the 3rd gen era.

And, in case anyone's wondering, 3rd gen had roughly 120 episodes, and 4th gen has had 185 episodes so far. But, if you take away the 40 percent of episodes that are Shinahachi lives, that makes roughly 111 episodes.

Idoling!!! has always been an "idol-nurturing" project. Well, to properly nurture anything, it requires a lot of time and attention... Something they haven't been giving the members enough of lately. Yes, they got lucky with 3rd gen, but they're not always going to be that lucky.

It would be more reasonable if you just stated that you like the songs from that period better and I would not argue about such an opinion at all. I simply can't agree that 2nd gen. era was their peak. And it's not just about 3rd gen. either, 1st and 2nd gen. have progressed considerably since the 2nd gen. era as well, and the singles that came after the 2nd gen. era clearly are more polished and sounds better, in fact it's not even a comparison. 2nd gen. era songs for the most part sound amateurish. I would say the peak was prior to 4th gen. joining, because 4th gen. lowered the vocal level of the entire group significantly, not to mention steer the musical direction to the superficial style in catering to the youthful image of 4th gen. OMG what have you done, stupid staff!! No more kiddie-pop songs!!!
That would be reasonable. But, it's not true. In fact, I very much prefer Idoling!!!'s current songs over their older songs. But, not once did I say anything about any of Idoling!!!'s songs in this paragraph. Everybody sounds good on the track. I'm talking about live performances. Back then, they sang many songs from other artists, which means they had to adapt to many different singing styles. If you go back and watch the many different opening performances from the 2nd gen era, you'll see that they actually did a pretty good job with all of the cover songs.

I don't understand why you say that the addition of 4th gen directed Idoling!!!'s music to a more youthful image, especially when songs like Soushoku-kei Carnival, Houkago Telepathy, and Love Magic Fever are all from the 3rd gen era. If anything, they've been singing kiddie-pop songs from the beginning. Have you ever heard Ponkikki Medley?

I agree that Yokoyama and Kawamura probably sings without even thinking about the lyrics and its meaning, but I'm not so sure about Rumi and Michelle of all people only having the soul of singing. Rumi does sing with emotion but I don't know if that is enough to qualify her as being a soulful singer, because first of all, she's still a pedestrian singer skill-wise and such skill-level will not capture my heart. I have no opinion on Michelle, haven't seen her sing enough solo to really gauge anything about her singing soul.
See, this is where things get blurry. Like I said, I really have no idea about technical singing "talent". I only know the way I feel when I hear someone singing. To me, soulful singing has nothing to do with "skill" or "talent". It's all about feeling and the way a singer's voice touches me. To understand what I mean, you have to look past technicalities and just feel the sounds entering your head. This is where I always clash with people, because nobody really understands what I mean, and I don't really know how to describe it. All I can really say is, Rumi and Michelle's singing voices touched me in ways that no other members have since the two left.

I stand corrected, I think I disagree with this part the most, I like Rumi's singing voice too, but skill-wise, she's very pedestrian, and not even close to what Maipuru can do with her singing. I think it's too convenient for you to say that Rumi has soul but Maipuru doesn't just because you don't like Maipuru's singing voice. I'm not even sure why you would diss Maipuru for, all you had to say was you like Rumi's singing the most. And judging Maipuru's singing on one line of a song is rather puzzling, wouldn't it be more fair and accurate to judge her singing by her solos like Yuusha No Yuutsu? I wonder if Rumi can sing solo entirely for that song without gasping for oxygen. Omoi no Uta indeed is a great song, but it didn't move me as much as 3dome no Kinenbi did because the difference in the vocals' skill-wise is like night and day.
When did I say I didn't like Maipuru's singing voice? I love Maipuru's elegant singing voice, but it's best used in a controlled manner. Yuusha no Yuuutsu didn't have a really big climax. It stayed right around a level that's perfect for Endo. 3dome no Kinenbi was an incredible song, but who got the big climax solo? Rurika. I may have been a little to harsh on Maipuru, but I was really disappointed when I heard the live version of Konayuki ga Mau Machinami de. She sounded completely out of her element. I never said Koizumi was a better singer than Endo. I said Koizumi was a more soulful singer than Endo. Endo's singing is one where you listen in awe as she elegantly sings the words, whereas Koizumi's singing is the kind that hits you in the chest, making it preferrable for a solo that hits the powerful climax of a song.

Miyake does not have strong enough singing voice, and no training will make her into a singing diva that of Maipuru or even Rumi since it takes more than a strong vocal to be a great singer. Miyake will never catch up to Maipuru's level in her lifetime even if she had the talent. I'm sorry but this is just a silly suggestion that is very unrealistic. Besides, Miyake isn't some uninterested person who does nothing, she's the best pastry baker of the group, and while it's not much, her strengths still lie with the variety aspect more so than the live stage because she just doesn't have the presence of a diva. Miyake seems to want to pursue acting herself, but she has to show some work sample for me to comment on that.
Nobody in Idoling!!! will ever reach the level of skill that Maipuru has, but they can be trained to be at a level that's good enough to create a quality product. Music is an art, and as with any art, skill and talent aren't everything. There are so many other factors that come into play, and so many of them are subjective. My point was, Idoling!!! has lost its soul when it comes to singing, and the only member who seems like she has the potential to bring it back is Miyake. I'm not saying she will be nearly as good as Koizumi, but she has the potential to fill the gap that Koizumi left.

When has baking pastries become a part of Idoling!!!'s job? Even after all this time, Miyake is a big question mark on the variety show. She really doesn't do anything unless she's pushed into an opportunity to do something.

If there's a member you'd want to groom into a diva, no one is better candidate than Yurippe who is already a much better singer than Miyake is, and unlike Miyake, Yurippe has potential for growth. I look for Yurippe to take more part in live stage and eventually become one of the aces.
I really don't understand where you're coming from with this... I have never heard anything from Tachibana that sounded particularly special. She tends to do weird things with her voice. To me, she has always seemed average, at best.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 07:52:29 AM by Silverbolt »

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1088 on: October 10, 2011, 12:16:30 PM »
But, I don't agree that they would remove a member based on their compatibility and influences on the other members of the group. If they cared about the group's unity and chemistry, the would have never added new members. Even if a rotten apple develops in the group, it's much more economical to take disciplinary action and try to correct the misbehaving member, rather than just get rid of her. Besides, it's not really the Japanese way to just fire somebody and force them to leave. Instead, they make work conditions unfavorable to the employee until they decide to leave on their own. That's why I believe the decision to "graduate" is decided almost entirely by the members themselves.
I tend to think that if I was in staff's shoes, I would expect the 1st and 2nd gen. to get along without an issue because they are working as a group as professionals, and if any member shows any sign that they are not being a team-player, that would pose a big problem down the road so it may be more efficient to force them out instead of working things out, which they may have as well anyway before cutting them loose. I really don't feel that it's that easy to make people change let alone a bunch of teenage female idols you know. When relationships turn sour it rarely recovers. I don't think the staff is willing to take such a risk on a member they don't fully trust. And of course the staff can fire any member at any time, they are the adults and employers for crying out loud, members have no power in reality. But the staff wants to make you believe that they don't force any member out because they end up getting the heat from the fans, which probably was the case for Kato, Eto, and Takiguchi, so the staff has become rather gun-shy in terms of forcing a member out even if they are useless and have no talent whatsoever.

I'm not so sure if that whole Japanese work culture thing applies to Idoling, it's not exactly a typical work arrangement, and the reason why employers wait for the employee to quit has to do with compensation more than the culture, where the employer doesn't have to pay compensation if the employee quits on their own will. Companies in America do the same thing. I'm pretty sure that plenty people also get fired in Japan if they really suck at it. Idoling members don't exactly work in an office so what could they possibly do to make things difficult enough that they would quit? Not much, the best they can do is not have them on the show episodes so they don't have to pay them anything until the contract expires. Could they have done that to Rumi which would explain her non-showing streak down the stretch? Maybe, but I believe Rumi quit by her choice so who knows.

The only reason why I said I think it's bad is because any member could leave at any given time. We really don't have any idea what goes on inside each members' head. But, like I said above, I don't believe that the staff would force anyone out of the group. A lot of the other things you said in this paragraph make it seem like you aren't familiar with the 2nd gen era.
It's just a matter of perspective, I'd rather have the members have free will instead of being stuck in a group they don't want to be a part of due to contractual obligation. Sure it would be sad to see the members leave by choice, but would you be happy if they were forced to stay and be miserable? In that sense, I am pleased to see that the current members get along so well and wanting to be a part of the group.

They stated that Rumi left for "health reasons," but anyone who was a fan at the time knows that was complete BS. Rumi had a huge ego and an extremely volatile personality that could turn sour at any moment. Being the honest group that Idoling!!! is, many of the conflicts between Rumi and the other members frequently came to light on the TV show. Even at the 10th Live, Rurika mentioned something about getting into an argument with Rumi right before the 1st live. But, the bond that the 1st gen members built was so strong that even Rumi's bratty personality wasn't enough to break it. Even now, she still hangs out with the other 1st gen members outside of work. But, if you think about her personality, she's exactly the type who would get angry about a bunch of new kids coming in and riding on her coattail. By bringing in the 2nd gen members, the staff basically said, we can't be successful with just the 9 of you. Her pride was hurt. The timing of her graduation makes me believe that the staff started looking for the 3rd gen members, and that's what caused her to say enough is enough and decide to leave even before reaching the end of the contract.
Honestly, I don't know what to believe, I think most of the rumors are bogus, yeah Rumi is a very colorful character, but I don't believe she's just like that in real life either. I think what most fans think of Rumi as not the real life one but her character from the show. And if Rumi wasn't happy about the new members keep joining wouldn't she be directing her anger at them instead of arguing with Rurika of all people? And even that episode is not what I would call a proof of Rumi being difficult, because Rurika also mentioned that it was about nothing, and other 1st gen. members were giggling at them, doesn't sound like a serious problem to me. I believe the 1st gen. as a collective whole wasn't happy about 2nd gen. joining them and they have said so, it's clearly not just about Rumi's pride, if it was she would quit right when 2nd gen. joined, and not wait around until the news on 3rd gen. got out either. You say that Rumi is exactly such a type, but you don't know her personally do you? You can believe what you want of course, but I think a lot of your story is fictional with little truth. Because my impression on Rumi is totally different, I never saw her as a big-ego type, otherwise she wouldn't take on being such an antagonistic character in the first place.

Your statement about Kato couldn't be more wrong. Saya-nee was one of the most accepting of the 2nd gen. She got along well with them, and they all looked up to her like a big sister, hence the nickname "Saya-nee". But, there was always a generational gap between her and the younger members, and it probably became too big of an issue in her mind. It also didn't help that it was constantly brought up on the TV show. With her close friend Rumi gone, and even younger members coming in with the 3rd gen, she probably felt that it was time to move on.
I chose to go with Kato being forced out because it made more sense to me seeing what she's like. You see, I think Kato is the one with the most pride and ego, not Rumi. And Kato may be oldest, but she's far from being the big sister-type who would look after the younger members at all because she's the youngest sibling in her own family so she's not used to looking after anyone, and her personality as she has said publicly is more of being the one being spoiled rather than the other way around. Yes, it doesn't mean that she is not capable of leading and be a big sister, but I don't think she cares about 2nd gen. enough to develop those qualities overnight, and again, I can only go by my own impression, but Kato and 2nd gen. didn't exactly seem like the best of pals. I do know that Kato keeps in touch with 1st gen. members still, but 2nd gen.? That would be a big fat NO. The age gag is part of Kato's ammo from the very beginning, and she revelled in it, if Kato really hated it I don't think the other members would dare bring it up every chance they could get. But it was the staff who found her age to be an issue and made her realize nicely so that she would quit, because their message made her ego hurt. I don't think age had to be even brought up, making her realize that she's not wanted probably was enough.

Eto was a little brat, and Takiguchi was the exact opposite of an idol, but those are the characters that made them successful within Idoling!!! It wouldn't make sense for them to leave for those reasons. They most likely left Idoling!!! just because they had other plans. Eto wanted to become an actress, and Takiguchi was focusing more and more on comedy. The two of them even became a comedy duo shortly after leaving Idoling!!!
It's ironic that you view them as successful, is Idoling successful then? Hmmm...anyway I totally agree that Eto is a brat on and off stage, I mean anybody could sense it right away, the staff probably got tired of her attitude. I think they didn't know what to do with Takiguchi, but she making a fool of herself in front of the new producer probably cost her the job, and I don't blame them because Takiguchi is not exactly a charming gal who leaves the greatest of first impression. Oh c'mon, what plans, they had nothing to go on, they so got fired!

Michelle was the type who would be popular... among Western people. She was rich and stylish, but that also made her seem somewhat unapproachable. There was too much of a cultural gap between her and the other members, and it always made her seem separate from the rest of the group. There were so many times when her lack of knowledge of the Japanese language interfered with her ability to participate on the show. Adding her to the group was a gimmick, and it wasn't succeeding, so she left.
She seemed plenty approachable to me, well at least far more so than Kawamura. I really don't care enough about Michelle to say anything on your claims, but I think you are making a little too much out of her cultural background, those teenage Japanese girls love hip foreigners! I think her lack of Japanese knowledge provided quite a few moments of laughter among the members. At the end though, Michelle was too cool for Idoling and so she quit.

The staff's not trying to get rid of her. They're looking for ways to motivate her because it's clear that she has lost her passion for Idoling!!! Sometimes, when your employees are underperforming, you have to call them out on it to light a fire under them. She keeps dropping hints that she wants to leave, and in my opinion, she's the most likely to leave when March comes.
Publicly humiliating her is the staff's way of motivating her? Wow, I really hope you are wrong because that's just cruel and mean. Why can't they just call her into a meeting room and give her an ultimatum instead? Wouldn't she get the message more clearly that way instead of making it a part of a show segment and half-jokingly making her to realize it? I'm sorry but I call total bogus on your story. And what ever gave you an idea that Fonchi has lost the passion? Yeah she put on some weight last year, but she has trimmed down this year, I don't see the warning signs.

I'm not saying that 4th gen is good. I will wholeheartedly agree with you when you say that 3rd gen is better than 4th gen. What I'm saying is, there's no reason why 4th gen can't be good. Developing characters takes time and attention. Some people are naturally better and quicker at finding their spots than others. I never said that Tonooka and Yokoyama bring nothing to the variety show. I said they were able to have great moments because they were given the proper time and attention needed to find their niches on the variety show. The point I was trying to make was, even though many of the 1st gen members seemed just as dull and boring as the 4th gen members do, every 1st gen member, 1 through 9, found their own little character on the TV show, and it's because each was given enough time and attention to find it. There was no "extra baggage" that so many people seem to complain about with the current roster. Not being able to stand out from a large group is different from not being an interesting person. Almost everybody has something interesting to bring to the table. Sometimes, you just have to dig deeper to find it.
Since you agree that 3rd gen. is superior than 4th gen. I have nothing much to add, but I just feel that 4th gen. has no talent whatsoever, and no time and nurture and developing will help them. Even with 1st gen. they were given plenty of time to develop but ultimately Kato, Eto, and Takiguchi got fired because they didn't have good enough talent and potential for growth. 4th gen. in that respect has no business being a part of this group, if those 1st gen. members weren't good enough to stick around, 4th gen. surely aren't. Holy god, you should watch this uRa episode where Ito Yuna keeps talking to herself about takoyaki and UFO, the most boring thing ever.

That would be reasonable. But, it's not true. In fact, I very much prefer Idoling!!!'s current songs over their older songs. But, not once did I say anything about any of Idoling!!!'s songs in this paragraph. Everybody sounds good on the track. I'm talking about live performances. Back then, they sang many songs from other artists, which means they had to adapt to many different singing styles. If you go back and watch the many different opening performances from the 2nd gen era, you'll see that they actually did a pretty good job with all of the cover songs.

I don't understand why you say that the addition of 4th gen directed Idoling!!!'s music to a more youthful image, especially when songs like Soushoku-kei Carnival, Houkago Telepathy, and Love Magic Fever are all from the 3rd gen era. If anything, they've been singing kiddie-pop songs from the beginning. Have you ever heard Ponkikki Medley?
They may pick the best sounding sampling for the tracks but I still can tell that vocals from 2nd gen. era are amateurish in execution, no machinery can hide it, that's why I don't listen to tracks from that era much because I feel like I'm lowering my standards in music. Cover songs are a completely different thing altogether, so I can't say anything on that, but I surely didn't feel that they sang the cover songs any better, the singing level was pretty much the same.

I'm going by single songs so keeping that in mind, the 1st single for 3rd gen. is "baby blue", not a kiddie pop song, the 2nd single song is "Mujouken Kouhuku", not a kiddie-pop song either, next "Tenohirano Yuuki", nope, not a kiddie-pop song, "Love Magic Fever" I guess, but it's a game-tie-in song, so it's more playful than anything else, next "S.O.W.", not a kiddie-pop song even though it's an anime theme song. Compare that to 4th gen's 1st single "MeniwaAoba..." ding ding ding, kiddie song. Next one is "Poolside Daisakusen", borderline kiddie-pop song. "Eve" is not kiddie song, but then "Yarakai Heart" is total kiddie candy xxx48 wannabe track. You see my point?

See, this is where things get blurry. Like I said, I really have no idea about technical singing "talent". I only know the way I feel when I hear someone singing. To me, soulful singing has nothing to do with "skill" or "talent". It's all about feeling and the way a singer's voice touches me. To understand what I mean, you have to look past technicalities and just feel the sounds entering your head. This is where I always clash with people, because nobody really understands what I mean, and I don't really know how to describe it. All I can really say is, Rumi and Michelle's singing voices touched me in ways that no other members have since the two left.
Yeah I'm totally lost on what you mean by "soul" here, must be something close to that of personal preference. I just find it hard to believe that you think Maipuru doesn't have soul in her singing, it's a required element in singing Yuusha no Yuutsu successfully.

When did I say I didn't like Maipuru's singing voice? I love Maipuru's elegant singing voice, but it's best used in a controlled manner. Yuusha no Yuuutsu didn't have a really big climax. It stayed right around a level that's perfect for Endo. 3dome no Kinenbi was an incredible song, but who got the big climax solo? Rurika. I may have been a little to harsh on Maipuru, but I was really disappointed when I heard the live version of Konayuki ga Mau Machinami de. She sounded completely out of her element. I never said Koizumi was a better singer than Endo. I said Koizumi was a more soulful singer than Endo. Endo's singing is one where you listen in awe as she elegantly sings the words, whereas Koizumi's singing is the kind that hits you in the chest, making it preferrable for a solo that hits the powerful climax of a song.
I guess you are saying that while Maipuru is better overall singer, Rumi is better at climax parts, well I can give you that Maipuru belting the climax is not her strong point, but she's still pretty darn good, did you see her sing Lalalala no song? She's a vocal monster.

Nobody in Idoling!!! will ever reach the level of skill that Maipuru has, but they can be trained to be at a level that's good enough to create a quality product. Music is an art, and as with any art, skill and talent aren't everything. There are so many other factors that come into play, and so many of them are subjective. My point was, Idoling!!! has lost its soul when it comes to singing, and the only member who seems like she has the potential to bring it back is Miyake. I'm not saying she will be nearly as good as Koizumi, but she has the potential to fill the gap that Koizumi left.
What is this "soul" you keep talking about, now Miyake has it but Maipuru doesn't? What is this nonsense? Miyake is not even a good singer to have any soul! You are really frustrating me. And surely, not many will think Michelle is the gate-keeper of Idoling's musical soul either.

When has baking pastries become a part of Idoling!!!'s job? Even after all this time, Miyake is a big question mark on the variety show. She really doesn't do anything unless she's pushed into an opportunity to do something.
Miyake got to show off her baking skill in a special episode, it's always good to have special skills, that's kind of what makes an idol more unique over another and an edge, don't you think she could get some gigs for having that particular skill? I sure do, there's millions of cooking shows as it is.

I really don't understand where you're coming from with this... I have never heard anything from Tachibana that sounded particularly special. She tends to do weird things with her voice. To me, she has always seemed average, at best.
I'm not saying Yurippe is a singing sensation, but she's at least better than Miyake without a doubt. I'd like to ask you the same question because your case is even weaker, Miyake is not even in the vicinity of being at the top tier of singing line-up, she's at the bottom right next to Serina.

Offline Silverbolt

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1089 on: October 11, 2011, 07:48:46 AM »
I tend to think that if I was in staff's shoes, I would expect the 1st and 2nd gen. to get along without an issue because they are working as a group as professionals, and if any member shows any sign that they are not being a team-player, that would pose a big problem down the road so it may be more efficient to force them out instead of working things out, which they may have as well anyway before cutting them loose. I really don't feel that it's that easy to make people change let alone a bunch of teenage female idols you know. When relationships turn sour it rarely recovers. I don't think the staff is willing to take such a risk on a member they don't fully trust. And of course the staff can fire any member at any time, they are the adults and employers for crying out loud, members have no power in reality. But the staff wants to make you believe that they don't force any member out because they end up getting the heat from the fans, which probably was the case for Kato, Eto, and Takiguchi, so the staff has become rather gun-shy in terms of forcing a member out even if they are useless and have no talent whatsoever.
You keep forgetting the money aspect. If the staff forced any member out, that's an instant loss of revenue. Is it worth losing merchandise sales just because a member is misbehaving? Of course not. You deal with that crap for as long as possible, just so you can squeeze out every little bit of money that you can. Kato, Koizumi, and Takiguchi were 3 of the most popular members in the group, which means that they most likely sold more merchandise than a lot of the other members. Why would anyone in their right mind force out 3 members who are moving more merchandise than many of the ones who are staying? It's not good business sense at all.

Honestly, I don't know what to believe, I think most of the rumors are bogus, yeah Rumi is a very colorful character, but I don't believe she's just like that in real life either. I think what most fans think of Rumi as not the real life one but her character from the show. And if Rumi wasn't happy about the new members keep joining wouldn't she be directing her anger at them instead of arguing with Rurika of all people? And even that episode is not what I would call a proof of Rumi being difficult, because Rurika also mentioned that it was about nothing, and other 1st gen. members were giggling at them, doesn't sound like a serious problem to me. I believe the 1st gen. as a collective whole wasn't happy about 2nd gen. joining them and they have said so, it's clearly not just about Rumi's pride, if it was she would quit right when 2nd gen. joined, and not wait around until the news on 3rd gen. got out either. You say that Rumi is exactly such a type, but you don't know her personally do you? You can believe what you want of course, but I think a lot of your story is fictional with little truth. Because my impression on Rumi is totally different, I never saw her as a big-ego type, otherwise she wouldn't take on being such an antagonistic character in the first place.
Again, I have to question your knowledge of the 2nd gen era here. My statements about Rumi's personality are not based on rumors. The other members of Idoling!!! talked about many different backstage incidents involving Koizumi. Even Mori-D himself dropped a hint that Koizumi was problematic. Time and time again during the 2nd gen era, Idoling!!! fans would hear about just how moody Rumi Koizumi is when she's not on camera. They even made a gimmicky segment based off of it. She didn't develop the bratty princess character just for the camera. It's an extension of her real personality. I don't need to know her personally to judge her personality because people who do know her personally have already passed that information along.

I brought up that incident with Rurika just as an example of how the members themselves talk about conflicts with Rumi. That incident happened before the 1st live, which means it has nothing to do with 2nd gen, because they weren't even in the group at the time!

I chose to go with Kato being forced out because it made more sense to me seeing what she's like. You see, I think Kato is the one with the most pride and ego, not Rumi. And Kato may be oldest, but she's far from being the big sister-type who would look after the younger members at all because she's the youngest sibling in her own family so she's not used to looking after anyone, and her personality as she has said publicly is more of being the one being spoiled rather than the other way around. Yes, it doesn't mean that she is not capable of leading and be a big sister, but I don't think she cares about 2nd gen. enough to develop those qualities overnight, and again, I can only go by my own impression, but Kato and 2nd gen. didn't exactly seem like the best of pals. I do know that Kato keeps in touch with 1st gen. members still, but 2nd gen.? That would be a big fat NO. The age gag is part of Kato's ammo from the very beginning, and she revelled in it, if Kato really hated it I don't think the other members would dare bring it up every chance they could get. But it was the staff who found her age to be an issue and made her realize nicely so that she would quit, because their message made her ego hurt. I don't think age had to be even brought up, making her realize that she's not wanted probably was enough.
What are you basing your opinion of Kato on? You're calling me out for making things up about Rumi, yet you provide very little evidence that supports your opinion of Sayaka. Your main attempt at supporting your opinion was based off of a statement she made in the middle of the 1st gen era, which was used in response to a question about what she thinks has changed in her life. Not only is that statement outdated and irrelevant to the 2nd gen era, when you view the statement in its proper context, it contradicts the point you were trying to make. Yes, it's probably true that Kato doesn't really keep in touch with the 2nd gen members, but that doesn't mean she didn't like them. Just earlier this year, she posted on her blog about her joyful encounters with Morita, Kikuchi, and Miyake.

It's ironic that you view them as successful, is Idoling successful then? Hmmm...anyway I totally agree that Eto is a brat on and off stage, I mean anybody could sense it right away, the staff probably got tired of her attitude. I think they didn't know what to do with Takiguchi, but she making a fool of herself in front of the new producer probably cost her the job, and I don't blame them because Takiguchi is not exactly a charming gal who leaves the greatest of first impression. Oh c'mon, what plans, they had nothing to go on, they so got fired!
Successful within Idoling!!! Please read the entire sentence before responding. Say what you will about Eto and Takiguchi, but you can't ignore the fact that both of them were featured very prominently on the variety show. They were Masuno's two favorite members to pick on during the 1st gen era. That alone speaks volumes about how successful they were in finding their own interesting characters on Idoling!!!'s TV show.

Publicly humiliating her is the staff's way of motivating her? Wow, I really hope you are wrong because that's just cruel and mean. Why can't they just call her into a meeting room and give her an ultimatum instead? Wouldn't she get the message more clearly that way instead of making it a part of a show segment and half-jokingly making her to realize it? I'm sorry but I call total bogus on your story. And what ever gave you an idea that Fonchi has lost the passion? Yeah she put on some weight last year, but she has trimmed down this year, I don't see the warning signs.
Public humiliation is what Idoling!!! is all about, son. If you haven't figured that out yet, then you're not watching the same show that I am. If you think that's bad, try having your peers tell the world that you're a moody bitch when the cameras are off. Fonchi had it easy on that Gakkyuukaing episode.
Fonchi's hints about leaving were posted on her blog.


Sorry, but I'm not really going to say much more about the music aspect... I really hate getting into deep discussion about music because I really don't know any technical details about it. I just listen to it and see how I feel. Nobody really understands my tastes in music, and I don't really care enough to make anybody understand it. I will say this, though... You talk about singing like it's some God-given ability that one either has or doesn't have. But, it's a skill, and just like every other skill in the world, it can be learned. To say that someone can't become a great singer, even with training, is an incredibly narrow-minded statement. There are people every single day who prove that statement wrong. I'm not saying anyone can do it, but you shouldn't count anyone out before seeing what they're really capable of.

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1090 on: October 11, 2011, 12:48:23 PM »
You keep forgetting the money aspect. If the staff forced any member out, that's an instant loss of revenue. Is it worth losing merchandise sales just because a member is misbehaving? Of course not. You deal with that crap for as long as possible, just so you can squeeze out every little bit of money that you can. Kato, Koizumi, and Takiguchi were 3 of the most popular members in the group, which means that they most likely sold more merchandise than a lot of the other members. Why would anyone in their right mind force out 3 members who are moving more merchandise than many of the ones who are staying? It's not good business sense at all.
I rather not talk about the business aspect because it's boring, I only care about the members. Only thing I can say about it is that you are just not thinking like how the management is looking at things. Losing profit from merchandise sales is the last of their concerns when they get rid of a member, FujiTV isn't some tiny storefront that needs every penny from the sales profit to survive or something, FujiTV DOES NOT NEED THE MEMBERS at all, if they feel like it, they can shut the whole thing down the next day and won't even flinch an eye-lid. That's the management's mentality and how they think, the members have NO POWER, just know that.

Now, looking at the facts, half of the 1st gen. was let go or they quit as you believe that's what happened because FujiTV needs the sales revenue to run the whole operation so how dare they fire the members right. So why didn't the management persuade the leaving members to stay? Did the leaving members have tons of better job offers lined up for them? Didn't look like so. Other than Rumi, what exactly were the issues the other members were having that made them feel strong enough to quit the group without anything to fall back on? Because of 3rd gen.? Why do they have an issue with 3rd gen. who they haven't even met, and why would they cope with 2nd gen. all this time if dealing with new members was such an issue? You claimed that Kato got along with 2nd gen., so she quit because of her age? That's rather a weak reason considering that Kato is still active as an IDOL. Eto and Takiguchi didn't seem like 2nd gen. was such an issue that they had to quit either. I'm very confident that they got fired.

Again, I have to question your knowledge of the 2nd gen era here. My statements about Rumi's personality are not based on rumors. The other members of Idoling!!! talked about many different backstage incidents involving Koizumi. Even Mori-D himself dropped a hint that Koizumi was problematic. Time and time again during the 2nd gen era, Idoling!!! fans would hear about just how moody Rumi Koizumi is when she's not on camera. They even made a gimmicky segment based off of it. She didn't develop the bratty princess character just for the camera. It's an extension of her real personality. I don't need to know her personally to judge her personality because people who do know her personally have already passed that information along.
I'm going by impression since I have no first-hand knowledge, it's just that what you are telling me doesn't seem realistic, like you are just piecing things and filling the holes based on a few rumors. I haven't seen any footage of the members and Mori D bashing Rumi either so maybe you could show me where to look for that. In the meantime, if Rumi was such a problem it makes less sense that the management would put up with it just to save a few bucks on sales revenue, so I'm not sure if Rumi quit by her choice now. Yeah, she probably got fired. From who exactly did the fans hear that Rumi is moody? The staff? Why would the staff publicly bad-mouth an Idoling member, a product of FujiTV, of all people to her fans? To motivate Rumi? I don't think the staff is that retarded and moronic to do that. I'm not doubting you SB, I just think your source of info. is very fishy and in turn you are stuck making up a flawed story. If you insist that Rumi was a total bitch, I won't argue about this any more, but then it doesn't fit even if that was the case if you still think she quit by her choice when she was the source of the problem. Please don't bring up the silly sales revenue thing, the management can survive without her, 2nd gen. is already in place to recover any drop-off in sales, and they had very promising 3rd gen. coming in. ANY MEMBER CAN BE REPLACED. PERFECT, let's fire the rotten ones. Now that sounds far more realistic to me.

What are you basing your opinion of Kato on? You're calling me out for making things up about Rumi, yet you provide very little evidence that supports your opinion of Sayaka. Your main attempt at supporting your opinion was based off of a statement she made in the middle of the 1st gen era, which was used in response to a question about what she thinks has changed in her life. Not only is that statement outdated and irrelevant to the 2nd gen era, when you view the statement in its proper context, it contradicts the point you were trying to make. Yes, it's probably true that Kato doesn't really keep in touch with the 2nd gen members, but that doesn't mean she didn't like them. Just earlier this year, she posted on her blog about her joyful encounters with Morita, Kikuchi, and Miyake.
I think I've stated before that it's my impression, and an opinion as you said, unlike you who seem to say it as a fact based on things you've heard from other fans which they themselves are not first-hand witnesses. I'm pretty sure the statement was relevant to 2nd gen. as well because Maipuru said something along the similar fashion about Kato at the Kato's pre-graduation episode. If I'm not mistaken you were painting this picture that Kato was 2nd gen. members' big sister who wiped their butts for them and be their best pal, but now you admit to the fact that they don't really keep in touch? That doesn't sound right. Idols' blogs are like public ads, I don't put too much stock into it. Kato may have mentioned the encounter simply as a public service announcement, it's simply a stretch to take that and translate into Kato loves 2nd gen. like a big sister, don't buy it. I can even tell by comparison that Maipuru is far closer with younger members now than Kato ever was.

Successful within Idoling!!! Please read the entire sentence before responding. Say what you will about Eto and Takiguchi, but you can't ignore the fact that both of them were featured very prominently on the variety show. They were Masuno's two favorite members to pick on during the 1st gen era. That alone speaks volumes about how successful they were in finding their own interesting characters on Idoling!!!'s TV show.
If your definition of successful character is a young brat who is too bratty for her own good and a poser comedian who fails in delivering a punchline more than half the time that the MC would keep making fun of, possibly but I would hardly call it the highest quality of entertainment television. I didn't find them that interesting to be honest, I think Rumi above anybody else was the best in delivering the goods, she had magic. But of course Eto and Takiguchi are the stars of the show (Even though they are below-average in looks and can't sing) and they left the show by choice to pursue bigger and better things right. It's too bad they didn't realize that their characters were even viable characters because the MC made it work just barely.

Public humiliation is what Idoling!!! is all about, son. If you haven't figured that out yet, then you're not watching the same show that I am. If you think that's bad, try having your peers tell the world that you're a moody bitch when the cameras are off. Fonchi had it easy on that Gakkyuukaing episode.
Fonchi's hints about leaving were posted on her blog.
Public humiliation as a JOKE/PRANK is what Idoling is about. If the staff would use the show to send a serious message as you claim that Fonchi got, they would have done the same thing to Rumi for being a trouble-maker but they didn't, all they mentioned was that she was ill until the news about her quitting was announced. Why the discrepancy? Again, who is this peer you are talking about? Rumi may very well have been a moody bitch, but for some peer to blabber it around probably didn't have any good intentions in the first place, and may even disliked Rumi regardless so I just don't find such sources very credible.

Again, I don't put too much stock in idol blogs, unless they state things very specifically it's very easy to interpret it anyway you like. If you think Fonchi's blog is saying something about leaving, you should read Morita's blog because she's ready to leave Earth. But both of them are still in the group, so you'd have to show me more to convince me. Oh, btw, you should watch the Ekiden for Peace episode, Fonchi ran her gut out, I think the passion is still intact. 

Sorry, but I'm not really going to say much more about the music aspect... I really hate getting into deep discussion about music because I really don't know any technical details about it. I just listen to it and see how I feel. Nobody really understands my tastes in music, and I don't really care enough to make anybody understand it. I will say this, though... You talk about singing like it's some God-given ability that one either has or doesn't have. But, it's a skill, and just like every other skill in the world, it can be learned. To say that someone can't become a great singer, even with training, is an incredibly narrow-minded statement. There are people every single day who prove that statement wrong. I'm not saying anyone can do it, but you shouldn't count anyone out before seeing what they're really capable of.
I don't think your taste in music is an issue here, I just find it puzzling that you say Miyake and Michelle have soul in their singing yet Maipuru doesn't and it's not like you don't recognize that Maipuru is by far the better singer here so I just don't get that. That's like saying Alicia Keys has no soul in her singing but this neighbor I know who is average singer has soul! I think you should come up with a better term, "soul" just doesn't sound right in this context.

Of course Miyake can take lessons and learn the skills to become a better singer, but not Maipuru's level was my point. But I think singing is more than just about skill, even Maipuru wasn't a very polished singer at first but you still could sense that she has a gifted singing voice. Singing skill alone can only take you so far, but with natural talent a singer then can become a great one. It's like hitting a baseball, anybody can learn to hit, but only a select few can hit homers consistently to become professionals.

Offline kei_86

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1091 on: October 11, 2011, 06:03:11 PM »
I feel like throwing my 2 cents in but I'm someone who mainly watch Idoling!!! for the their TV appearance and not much for their music, just stating it out first.

I'm not going to provide my theories of why each member graduated because I didn't really read enough to give any sound statement at all.

Quote
If your definition of successful character is a young brat who is too bratty for her own good and a poser comedian who fails in delivering a punchline more than half the time that the MC would keep making fun of, possibly but I would hardly call it the highest quality of entertainment television. I didn't find them that interesting to be honest, I think Rumi above anybody else was the best in delivering the goods, she had magic. But of course Eto and Takiguchi are the stars of the show (Even though they are below-average in looks and can't sing) and they left the show by choice to pursue bigger and better things right. It's too bad they didn't realize that their characters were even viable characters because the MC made it work just barely.

However in regards to Eto and Takiguchi I think that they deserve their credits. Yes Eto was just a brat and Takiguchi wasn't even a really good comedian. However I think that if we were to look at the concept of an "idol" and the concept for "Idoling!!!" it is their imperfection that made them perfect. This is absolutely not a staff or business point of view but from a wota point of view Eto and Takiguchi was in their own way "good". Out of the 9 of the original members, #1,#4,#5 are the ones that has been trying to liven up the shows. Even Yazawa wasn't that out going in the early days, it was only after the whole Commander Yazawa segment that she really started to come out of her shell and it is pretty much fleshed out during the 2nd gen era. Though I know that this is not true anymore but I always believe that Idoling!!! is TV show 1st, music 2nd and there with Eto and Takiguchi being below-average in looks and can't sing is not really a problem. It is true that Takiguchi is not all the time funny and there are tons of moment when she creates an awkward scene but it really helps the MC to carry out the show. Which is something very similar to what Kawamura is right now (thus maybe the reason why you couldn't get into her) This might sound like a pure bias but if we were to compare to Umeko's withdrawal period during the 3rd gen to the newer episodes lately, there is an obvious improvement in teamplay between the MC and her and Masuno seems comfortable with her around in the show too because of the cues that she gives helps Masuno along. Takiguchi and Eto was also about the same, they create opportunity for others, either members or Masuno to butt in unlike Rumi, who is naturally witty and funny.

In regards to the show in general, losing Kato in the team is a real loss because even until today no one can still replace her. Kato speaks a lot in the show but she was not Amimi or Yazawa, Kato is the only member that is capable of bringing the best out of every other member. She is the only one that knows how to get the shy members talking. Right after the graduation concert, the whole show did go on a slump because there is no one lead the conversation among the members. Even until today, only the comfortable members are speaking out, the rest are just stagnant. Even until today they fail to replace Kato.

Plus this is an idol show, expecting the highest level of quality entertainment is not something that the audience should expect. We have many other idol shows, hello morning, 1ji 59fun, ki ni naru no ko, whole bunch of H!P's show, momoclo TV and the list goes on, I don't think anyone should expect highest level of quality entertainment because isn't that what Idols are supposed to be? Normal girls working hard striving for their respective dream while overcoming their various obstacles. Just attempting to do something is already enough, from a wota point of view that is. Since there are just many other real alternatives for real quality entertainment. Idols are just to inspire, in which Idoling!!! does it in a different way where they let the girls get involved in the whole show unlike other shows which the idols are just treated as decorations.

For the 4th gen, they joined in at an unfortunate timing I'd say. Not only there's no more Onegai fan sama but they also joined at the shinahachi era. At the very least when 3rd gen joined they have the opportunity to be only involved in the shows. There isn't enough episode to explore the 4th gen yet and the girls are still confused still IMO. Right after the graduation concert the show has gotten quite boring because it has always been one sided with only the MC playing their parts. It was only right after the Maji de futarikiring!!! that everybody changed drastically. Amimi suddenly became so outspoken, Miyake becoming a little bit less unsure, Umeko more positive and Ai-chan more proactive. After this wave, Yazawa rose up to rival Amimi and now we have the dynamic duo. Yes it has been sometime for the 4th gen, but there wasn't enough opportunity presented to them and the amount of effort done right now by the staff isn't enough to break that barrier down.

As for graduation, I honestly want to say I don't want to see anyone go. Because no one deserve to go even the boring Serina has the capability to bring something into the show. The girl is bullied so much that now she's traumatized from talking. Poor kid. But I guess that is too much of a wishful thinking.

If 5th gen is coming in, I only hope that they'd go back to the show original segments. Bring back onegai fan sama, that was the time when the members are able to talk to each other naturally and bashes each other with less worry about script. It was such an epic segment for the fans and more importantly it is one of the segment that helps the member to come out of their shell. Fan sama request is okay but the girls aren't getting enough time to express themselves. Wishful thinking is wishful. But I'm contend with Kado-P idea of doing more segment with the girls talking, at least that's half of a correct step to take, the other half should be to directing the new talents to develop themselves.

Well, just a thought.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 06:52:51 PM by kei_86 »

Offline Inferno

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1092 on: October 11, 2011, 08:57:04 PM »
Hey Jenus, if you wonder about Rumi, then you should check out episodes #428, 2008.11.04. (onegai onegai fan-sama) and #399, 2008.09.11. (shuffle to shot with staff members). I don't know what Mori says about Rumi, but it made her react. During onegai fan-sama they (mostly Amimi) were talking about how Rumi always seems to be in a bad mood or something.

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1093 on: October 11, 2011, 09:17:58 PM »
I'm sorry but I don't buy the whole "It's so bad that it's good." cop-out applied to Eto and Takiguchi. They were pretty bad, the fact that they even lasted that long indeed was due to the concept of the show being not perfect, and didn't take long for me to realize that Eto and Takiguchi have NO TALENT. I'm not so sure that even the wotas liked them that much, Eto wasn't that popular, and Takiguchi was just an amusement and never taken seriously as an idol.

Actually, I find Kawamura to be funny, and even charming at times, but as a whole package she's just not what I like as an idol, she's just not the type. I feel the same about Yazawa as well, not the type, but that doesn't mean I don't like her either. Yes, the MC has replaced Eto and Takiguchi with Yazawa, Kikuchi, and Kawamura now, which is a vast improvement because at the least the latter 3 have some ability in being funny consistently. In that sense, I have come to identify that Eto and Takiguchi's quality of variety in retrospect is vastly inferior and they indeed were the weakest link.

I won't deny that Kato was the anchor in leading the way in the talk segments, but I can only agree with that towards 1st gen. members. I also think she was aided by the script, because the way she would cut in to talk seemed rehearsed and rather artificial. It was a task for her as a leader more so than genuinely trying to bring the best out of the group and it was a sweet arrangement because she gets the screen time in doing so. I didn't feel the same willingness towards 2nd gen. though, Kato was much more reserved and took the role of a bystander as if she didn't want the 2nd gen. to out-shine 1st gen. members. I much prefer how Maipuru goes about being a leader than Kato, I'll be the first to say that Maipuru is not the prototypical leader type who takes authority and practices it boldly like Kato did, instead Maipuru leads by example, and being naturally inviting to the younger members both on and off the camera undoubtedly makes them feel more comfortable being around Maipuru as suppose to someone like Kato. I don't think it's fair to blame Maipuru for other members' inability to speak out because that's the MC's job in the first place. I think Maipuru has done an excellent job in keeping the group tight and unified and she has done far more for Idoling overall than Kato ever did. Ultimately, I see Kato as a self-serving leader, the most notable gash being the well-documented fact about 1st and 2nd gen. being two separate groups and yet Kato not doing anything about it to tear down the invisible wall of jealousy and contempt. Thus the reason why Kato was axed as the staff didn't want a rotten apple as a leader.

It doesn't matter as far as 4th gen. is concerned, they have no talent. No amount of nurturing and developing over time would turn them into a worthy idol. At best, they'll only become the next Eto and Takuguchi who have to make fool of themselves to even get noticed. It's really not about developing a character with 4th gen. members, it's about lack of talent.

Serina is the same thing, it's not the bullying (I don't know what you are referring to as bullying.) that is keeping her from showing her ability, she has no talent.

If 5th gen. has no talent to speak of they'll end up being just like 4th gen. without quesiton so for the sake of the group I can only hope they pick someone who has talent, then they'll find a way to shine no matter what, just like 3rd gen. did.

@Inferno, thanks I'll look into them, but I already know about the Kikuchi one, Rumi seems to be not a morning person, but does that make her a moody bitch? I think not. Kikuchi tends to exaggerate things for the sake of the show, I mean she calls Maipuru a pervert, but that's just a running joke, Maipuru isn't really a pervert, she just likes being naked. I don't think Rumi was that upset about Kikuchi's comment initially, but when she picked on Kikuch for saying a little too much, Fonchi backed Kikuchi by accusing Rumi of being the same, and then all hell broke loose. But is that really anything to go by? Rumi has feelings, big deal, maybe she was having a bad day, who knows, that doesn't mean she's this problematic cancer of the group.

Update: Ok I went to AMP to check out #399 but part 5 is missing in the media folder, so I can't watch it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 09:53:18 PM by Jenus »

Offline SuzukiRyo

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1094 on: October 12, 2011, 12:25:50 AM »
Kikuchi tends to exaggerate things for the sake of the show, I mean she calls Maipuru a pervert, but that's just a running joke, Maipuru isn't really a pervert, she just likes being naked.

Hentai doesn't always mean pervert. Being naked alone is not a problem but naked in front of member is somehow considered "hentai" there because no one ever do that except Maipuru. Did you watch Gekkan Idoling!!! 2011.03, 9th live and last week Shinahachi live on the spot (not recorded) ? On Gekkan Idoling!!! 2011.03, even 4th gen. members noticed that Maipuru likes to touch someone's hip. At 9th live she confessed that she kissed all members including Morimoto announcer when she got drunk. At shinahachi, she talked about Asahi's pants. This "hentai" character maybe is one of the reason she doesn't have personal blog yet. Manager needs to keep her image as clean as possible. Oh, well. The fact that this joke is still running makes it not a real problem for Maipuru being a "hentai" character in Idoling!!!.

Kadosawa P doesn't give fixed rules for Idoling!!! except 恋愛禁止 and he rarely gets angry. All opinions came from the directors like Yoshitaka, Gotou, Mori, and Sakuma. That reminds me of Gekkan Idoling!!! 2010.10, Gotou D (ex-D now) said something that confirms problematic members do exist among 1st gen. graduates. Also there were rumors that I can't confirm, Rumi got fired because she had relationship, plus underage drinking with Michelle. While I could only see that Kato, Takiguchi, and Eto resigned because they didn't like the group to have more members. Their love with この9人 makes them hate the group itself and even now they keeps throwing some jokes about it at their own event. Hardcore 1st gen. fans keep bashing Idoling!!! current roaster, especially Umeko, Serina, Kikuchi, and Hii-chan.

We fans just don't know what happen behind the closed door.

And always remember, singing/dancing skill is not the main decision point in Idoling!!! audition. At 4th gen. final audition, Yuna and Kaoru didn't sing or dance. Thinking of the judging point, 4th gen. members simply were chosen by Idoling!!! members because Idoling!!! members' vote gave more point than the examiners. So, go ahead blame Idoling!!! members for choosing the current five 4th gen. members.

Ah... I wonder why Tachibana still my least favorite member.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 02:05:54 AM by SuzukiRyo »

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1095 on: October 12, 2011, 01:47:36 AM »
While I do sense that Maipuru has erotic tendencies, she's not a pervert in its true sense of the term, the members just use that term because it sounds more controversial, and the whole point of it is poking fun at her. What's really a downer about Maipuru is probably her being rather vulgar, I mean Sakai keeps saying about how Maipuru farts all the time. Maipuru sleeps naked so she can't help it if other members who are sharing the room on a location sees her naked. I never heard about Maipuru being naked anywhere else. But I've heard about Okawa running naked inside the bath house on a hot-spring trip, possibly one of the gekkan episodes, and I also heard on a recent episode that Yazawa ran around naked after a live in the dressing room. Does that make them perverts too then? I hope not.

I don't see Eto and Takiguchi having enough balls to quit the group if you ask me, maybe Kato forced them to join her or something being spineless cronies that they are to the almighty queen bee Kato. I would expect the 1st gen. wotas to stick by the Kato queen even if she was the devil, but can't really say anything rational is there being who they are. Graduated members making fun of Idoling only says more about their lack of class than anything else, the current members don't make fun of the graduated ones by contrary. Yeah some amazing solo careers they have at those events huh, they sure got the last laugh, not.

Besides the one where Gotou D says along the lines of "The current group is not hungry enough to succeed...", I rarely hear any staff members outright bad-mouth the members because that's just bad PR, they do say things in a constructive manner though, but you can't really take that and say "Oh the staff criticized a member so she must be a total bitch!", that's just going the extreme. I do believe that the members who graduated had some issues since I think they got fired, but in the case of Rumi, I just don't see enough signs to identify her as a gigantic cancer person with bitchy mood swings.

I was under the impression that they do sing/dance in the preliminaries? I guess they have an option of not sing/dance at the finals but most of them do anyway so who knows, but Yuna did sing at the finals, Kaoru is the only one who did that circus act. I'm just emphasizing the singing aspect because that's what Idoling really needs right now. I think the judging panel's points counted about 1/3? So they still had some say, which was a bad idea, gravure magazine editors don't know the first thing about evaluating talents of an idol, they only care about the looks. Look at how the staff did a better job at picking 3rd gen. compared to the magazine hacks picking 4th gen., I'm not so sure about members getting to pick the new members either, I think the staff is more objective and far better at evaluating talent.

Well you could start out by pointing out what you don't like about Tachibana.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 02:17:02 AM by Jenus »

Offline Silverbolt

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1096 on: October 12, 2011, 02:57:40 AM »
Jenus, I am not going to continue this discussion with you. By constantly saying that I base my statements on rumors and other fans, you have shown that my knowledge of Idoling!!! has been completely discounted in your mind, making it pointless for me to say anything further on this topic. I could start pointing out very specific examples to support my statements, but it's not worth the time and effort because you obviously view Idoling!!! through a vastly different paradigm than the one that I view them through, which is probably due to our large generational gap as Idoling!!! fans.

But, I will say this... Although most of my statements were opinions and speculation, none of them were based on statements from other fans or rumors. Every statement I made was based on information gathered while watching, reading, and listening to dozens of pieces of Idoling!!!-related media every single day when I was a hardcore Idoling!!! fan during the 1st and 2nd gen eras. I don't care if you don't agree with what I said, but I just want you to know that I don't pull stuff out of thin air.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 03:05:20 AM by Silverbolt »

Offline Jenus

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1097 on: October 12, 2011, 04:36:58 AM »
Don't worry about it SB, whether Rumi is a total bitch and she got fired or not really doesn't matter towards what I care the most about right now because she's not even part of Idoling any more. It's just a plus to know the whole story because it could very well change my viewpoint on the current members. You almost had me convinced that Rumi indeed was a total bitch and that she got fired. I mean I agree that Rumi probably wasn't a saint, but the way you described her just didn't fit with my impression of Rumi.  I pride myself in being very objective whenever I can, so when I survey things like this I may have sounded very pessimistic, but I try to be even more critical of my thought process and make sure that my emotions and bias is not contaminating the final answer you know. I'm not saying you don't have the capability of separating the truth from what you want to believe being a hardcore fan that you once were, but unless you can show me a concrete proof, I have to go with what makes the most sense to me.

So if I became a fan from the very beginning, and see the pesky little bugger 2nd gen. invade Idoling and ruin what they had going, I probably wouldn't be very happy and may have looked at 2nd gen. very differently, especially if I was convinced of myself that 1st gen. the way it was is perfect.

Oh yeah, you may question that I could be just as biased towards whatever gen. members I have become attached to, rest assured sir, I have trained my thought process constantly where I just don't see things with much emotion any longer. I have mastered the technique of total objectivity you could say. Can you even tell who my favorite member is? LOL You'll never guess it.

Offline kei_86

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1098 on: October 12, 2011, 04:49:38 AM »
cool now that we're done with such epic seriousness allow me to get back to my fanwhoring in this thread.

The group is already unto something here, appearance on Hey!x3 mechaike and some other stuff like kawaii girl japan. I was getting a bit worried when nabeacchi was given the axe but now it is starting to look a little bit brighter. They have been brought up in the variety section for too long already and now it seems to be the prime time. Rurika's appearance and Amimi's appearance on heyheyhey were pretty good. Now all that is left is that they'd be a regular for another show.

Such an exciting time right now.

Offline SuzukiRyo

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Re: The Idoling!!! Discussion Thread
« Reply #1099 on: October 13, 2011, 10:26:26 AM »

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