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Author Topic: The Fanfic Rant Hole  (Read 24825 times)

Offline Estrea

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The Fanfic Rant Hole
« on: April 29, 2009, 11:04:23 PM »
Because I felt like ranting about writing, and ranting =/= discussion, so I figured we might as well have an official rant thread. Heh. XD


Ok, right now, I'm really just irritated with my current stories. Just, super irritated for some reason. I like them, but at the same time I'm irritated. They're just like my children, so even though I do love them, I occasionally feel like choking the life out of them. Yeah. I know I'm weird.

I'm strongly attached to both Gegenschein and Nocturne right now, and I know exactly how they will end and how to lead up to it (well, Nocturne more than Gegenschein XD because Nocturne is getting towards that final stretch XD), but at the same time I can't help but feel strongly dissatisfied with how both stories have turned out. o_O I don't know why, but something about about both of them makes me unhappy. Like...they're just not good enough. It doesn't make me happy. Like something's missing. Something lacking, so to speak.

Just rereading through them, something keeps telling me "ah, this is not good enough". It's just not memorable. It doesn't feel like something that would last. Something that would make an impact. It doesn't feel like it'll do anything to me or to anyone else as a person. And that irks me for some reason. Yeah, I know I have really strange standards.

A story that has impact...to me, here in JPHiP, that's OTN1's Lovex2 universe. That's the one that leaves the greatest impression on me. It's the kind of story that bears rereading. Something that makes you think. I want to write something like that. But every time I end up writing something, it becomes too...I dunno...drowned under its own hubris? My writing isn't humble enough. I'm not humble enough. That's what I think. I lack connection. My stories feel false and unreal. I hate it. Hate them and hate myself for not doing better.

I always feel like a kid in a sandbox, playing at building story castles. And sometimes I could grow to hate that part of myself, because I feel like I don't care enough about what I'm doing to the characters, to the people inside. Like everything's sort of like an experiment, kind of like "what will happen if I do this?" in a mad scientist sort of way. I don't feel enough. I can't express feelings well enough. It's like a glass wall that I pound and pound at but can never get through. Like, it's right there, but I can't do a damn thing about it. Like I can't connect at all. Like I failed somehow.

I guess right now I'm just angry. Angry with myself for not writing better. For not being better. I almost want to quit writing and never come back, because I suck so bad. Like...this is as far as I can go, and I can't make it any better. Like I've reached my limits. Me, who prides myself on being able to do anything as long as I really want to. Realizing that this is as far as I can go, in something so important to me, makes me feel like everything I've done so far is pretty much worthless. Like I can only come so far after trying so hard. I guess this is how people feel when they find that they just can't do it at all, no matter how hard they try. So this is what reality feels like.

I hate this. Lol. Hope my incoherent rant isn't too off-putting. Feel free to ignore. I just wanted to put this somewhere. I'm just so...argh. hate this. Hate myself for being like this. It just doesn't get better or worse huh. It just is.

I can't do better. I want to, but I can't seem to write anything that I could approve of myself. Something that I could look at and feel really proud of. Something that would make me feel that it's all worth it. Ugh.

*digs a little hole and hides inside*

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline writerjunkie

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 11:57:53 PM »
hey easy now Estrea. I personally think you're writing is amazing and will for sure leave an impact on many readers. I can understand what you mean about something missing or lacking, but I really think there is nothing to add. Everything in your stories both Nocturne and Gegenschein is coming out smoothly. It helps a lot to not be so hard on yourself. I used to be hard on myself a lot in everything I did wither it be writing, drawing, or school work I felt that I could have done better. And that can be good but doing it too much and being just too tough on yourself can lead to a lot of stress. I would love to have your writing skills I think they're very good. And that you shouldn't change it. It's fine just how it is. I think all the stories you write are great. Even though I don't comment. I'm a bit of a lurker sorry.  :sweatdrop: but i do read just about everything you write.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 01:28:52 AM by writerjunkie »

Offline Rayle

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 01:02:11 AM »
I know I haven't even introduced myself to this section of the forum, but honestly? The one post of Estrea's on her LJ that made it on to Intlwota led to me discovering JPHIP, through the fanfic section.

I've read and reread a lot of the stuff here and on RenaiRev, because the fics on H!O are just unsatisfying for me. Which isn't to say they're not well written. But I think it might touch on what you're feeling. The fics on H!O are largely "Let's fulfill X pairing".

Here in contrast, which in part I think is because of the examples of the "Titans", the writers tend to write deeper, either letting romance play second string to plot and character development, or underlining the romances with deeper nonromantic issues. RenaiRev's drabbles from the early stages personify the latter type best, I think, as well as Goosefish's "Sun" here.

Hell, Lovex2 is like the epitome of the second category bordered with a smattering of the first. The best chapters, by literary standards, were the sections where he delved into who the characters were, those huge introspectives that didn't necessarily advance the plot. One of the parts that had the greatest impact on me was in the "10 chapters of fluff", where there was this HUGE digression on Rika. He didn't even go anywhere with that line of thinking, it was just kind of there.  :lol: Character development wasn't just the way the people changed over the course of the story, since they stayed largely static after Story 3, but more of an exploration of their identities, letting us in on the way their minds worked. So, development in terms of letting us see them more clearly.

It might be presumptuous of me, but I think you're looking for the same kind of revealing in your stories. Would I be correct in assuming then that you feel more satisfied with your one-shots? That's what short stories are for.

In AA, because the pacing wasn't so fast, the changes in the characters would occur gradually enough that they could be explored in the meantime. AA Sidestories did that, and I loved the section on Miki's (lack of a) heart in Ch. 26. That, I think, is the kind of impact you're looking for?

If on more than on the character level, AA also had some kind of a political commentary as well, during the Berryz sections. The Maiha chapter and the parts dealing with Captain vs Government, were like Battle Royale actually  XD, dealing with issues like the effect of violence on minors, how power structures reinforce their power by various means, from propaganda to blackmail, the different forms of complicity, etc. How's about that for impact? 

However, Gegenschein and Nocturne are plot driven rather than character driven, so while you can and have written those introspectives in, ultimately things will be about how the characters change because of the story, not who they are. But you yourself said that Nocturne isn't supposed to be ultimately substantial anyway. BTW, you promised no Emofag Takahashi, and what's this? AHA EMOheterosexualRY IN FILE 22  :lol:

Just to clarify things, though, I still like everything you write. Can't write this much about things that don't fascinate me.

And, um, my friends will be leaving for dinner about now, so I'll have to cut off my word vomit. Did I come somewhere near the point though?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 02:34:57 AM by Rayle »

Offline 0508

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 01:46:17 AM »
I agree with a lot of the things Rayle stated. If I recall correctly it was Estrea's AA side stories that led me over to JPH!P because I had to hunt down the original thread. And girrr, if your stories weren't so awesome I'd still be a lurker around here.

Seriously, you're just like Aichan in that sense. We've had this discussion before. You know how you wanna just grab her by the shoulders, shake her, and tell her how awesome she is? Yeah, don't make me do the same to you lol. Be more proud of your stories. If you're not satisfied, hell, write more! Writing also takes practice and is built over your foundation and skill. You've got plenty of talent for writing, and you're doing a mighty fine job. Where else am I gonna go to find work like this? You've heard me rant about my bleeding eyes when accidentally got them burned out of their sockets after stumbling upon some other...stuff, and get all frustrated. XD

Quote from: Rayle
However, Gegenschein and Nocturne are plot driven rather than character driven, so while you can and have written those introspectives in, ultimately things will be about how the characters change because of the story, not who they are.
And that's what I adore most about the stories. The PLOT. THE MOTHERFUCKIN' SUSPENSE. Keeps us HOOKED. LIKE FEESH. Waiting for BIGGER FEESH (epic chapters) to come bite us in the ass later.

But yeah, you should continue. Because I like to sabotage pimp your threads. It's fun. Don't take away dinny's fun, pls. She cannot be entertaining if you do. :|

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 08:48:53 AM »
Thanks for your kind comments people. :) I was in a really bad mood when I ranted, but after a few hours of sleep I sort of feel better now. :)

@writerjunkie: Yeah, I know I'm too hard on myself sometimes...I just want to do better, you know? A bit of a perfectionist streak somewhere in there. I can be pretty extreme sometimes...either I'm the best or I won't even bother to try. Haha. Bit of an ego too I suppose. Thanks for lurking too, I guess. XD

@Rayle: Words cannot express my gratitude for your extremely insightful post. You've pretty much just explained the things that I didn't mention in my own rant. Yes, I do like my short stories a lot better. Even though nothing really happens in my one shots sometimes, it feels like "ah, I've done something worth looking at" when I finish a character introspection piece. And thank you for making me feel better about AA...I always thought that I sold out too much for fanservice in that story...but I guess when you look at it that way, there are a lot of issues to ponder over in that story. I guess since I wrote it myself, I tend to take certain things for granted. So there are things that I can't see from where I am, and I'm really grateful to have people remind me sometimes. Also, yes, you're right that Gegenschein and Nocturne are heavily plot driven, so the characters respond to the changes there instead of it coming from within...that's just how the story goes, and sometimes I rather write something more introspective, which is why I have my sandbox. Lol. AND THE EMOheterosexualRY IN FILE 22 WAS A MOMENT OF WEAKNESS! ...either by me or by Ai, that's up for intepretation. XD I'm glad you like what I write...and yes, yes you came very close to what I was thinking about. Thank you for the word vomit. It helps that someone gave it some thought too. :) Thank you so very much.

@dinny: SO that's how you came over. I was wondering about that. XD I guess I should be proud for delurking you. XD Yeah I guess I shouldn't give up, I should work harder and do even better. That's what Aichan would have done. And since she's my favorite idol, I should do as she would have done! :3 Yeah I like plotting...but I also like looking at the characters as people. Hmm, I need to find a balance to make myself happy. Lol. Yeah, continue pimping my threads, because god knows I'm having just as much fun as you are when you do it. XD Don't worry, dinny is plenty entertaining even without the pimping....but funnier with it. :lol:


Hmm, somehow this kind of turned into a "Let's Counsel Estrea!" thread. lmao. I guess I just have a lot of personal issues to work through. Haha. I'm glad that I can be here on JPH!P where the community is just so...awesome. :D As dai himself would have said, we a big family YO. XD Thanks to you guys! You're the best. :)

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline Amarghetta

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 02:37:48 AM »
Quote from: Rayle
However, Gegenschein and Nocturne are plot driven rather than character driven, so while you can and have written those introspectives in, ultimately things will be about how the characters change because of the story, not who they are.
And that's what I adore most about the stories. The PLOT. THE MOTHERFUCKIN' SUSPENSE. Keeps us HOOKED. LIKE FEESH. Waiting for BIGGER FEESH (epic chapters) to come bite us in the ass later.
And that's exactly why I haven't tried reading your long stories. Seriously, I'd rather wait for you to finish them. That way, I don't have to wait for an update.  :lol:

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 07:17:54 PM »
Ok another rant from me because I need it. XD

Argh, minor block for Nocturne. I know how I'm gonna end it but getting there is a problem. I need to give it a rest a bit, because the Reina arc has some iffy details I need to iron out before I feel comfortable enough to write. Haha. Rawr. I hope everyone doesn't mind waiting...

And for Gegenschein. I actually deleted parts of chapter 14 and rewrote it from scratch because the first version was mega-crap. So yeah. It's still a work in progress. I'm having fun but it's taking a while. A lot of loose ends to gather together so that everything will turn up when it's supposed to. I'm anal like that. Haha.


@Amarghetta: So that's why you haven't been commenting. You haven't been reading! Lol. It might be a long wait if you wanna wait for them to be finished. Haha. Nocturne will end earlier, but Gegenschein...it's gonna be a long series. Seriously. Lots of stuff coming up. XD

Well, I'll need a short break before going back to writing. Ta~

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline rndmnwierd

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 03:56:50 AM »
*pokes head into thread* Uh, hello? I know it says rant, but so far, only Estrea-sama has ranted and I feel a little like an intruder.

Oh well, that's not really going to stop me.

I just felt like I had to get this off my chest before I could be calm again. I've been writing again, like non stop, on a bunch of different stories and I find myself falling into the mentality that I had way back when, before I went all emo and stopped getting on here. I always try to do more than I'm capable of at once. Whether in real life or in my stories, I plan and plan and then find myself over whelmed.

I swore that I would start small and work my way up, but I finally found a plot that I really don't think is absolute crap (only a little crap) and I truly fear that I won't be able to finish it. One of my worst flaws is my inability to see forward and plan ahead for any length of time longer than tomorrow. I think that it has to do with my being too easily distracted, even as I write this, I have to keep stopping to just stop.

Everything just seems like it could work out in my head and when I try to put it into practice or down own paper, I just can't sit still long enough to get my ideas out at once. The longer I wait, the more fuzzy the idea get, even if I take notes on it, when I look back later it has become illegible. It's a constant pattern in my life, the reason why I dropped out of school my senior year and the reason I never went to college.

I hate my brain and sometimes, I really despise myself for my failings. How can I write about the things I do when I can never finish them. My greatest fear is disappointing the people that actually read my ramblings and the last thing I want to do is make myself feel bad and then lose my inspiration to write and end up not finishing yet another story. Vicious circle, vicious cycle.

Also I hate how I feel that I make no sense sometimes. It's like, I write how I talk and I never make sense when I speak so I feel that I'm not getting my point across. I'm too sarcastic, too cynical and at the same time, too naive and trusting.

See, not making sense now. How is this supposed to be a rant about fanfics? Writers block is almost never my problem, except for middle parts and connectors and such. ADHD is my nemesis in life!

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I'm stupid. Though I feel oddly better and yet like I deserve to be flogged...

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 07:39:41 AM »
^ :(

You know, if you have trouble with planning and stuff, it might be good to find someone to talk the idea out with instead of just scribbling on your own. Having a different person to bounce ideas off really helps, since they can help you focus and think about things you might not have considered. It's also nice to have encouragement, so yup. My two cents. :) Hope it helps.

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline rndmnwierd

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 08:44:10 AM »
Honestly, the only people I can talk to about this stuff is you guys, the other fanfic writers on here. My friends just don't understand writing for fun or they don't get why I write about these girls.

Y'all are my peers, though all of different experience levels and first languages, and I learn from all of you.

So thank you, Estrea and everyone else who has given me kind words and encouragement. It always means a lot to me.


...
...
...

Okay, enough being sad, I'm not a whiny teen anymore. Now sleep! Work! And writing later tomorrow!

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 08:49:05 AM »
Haha yes, sleep is good. If you ever feel the need to talk to someone about writing, look us up on IM! XD I know that I bounce my ideas off Sai, Fenfen and rokun a lot. :) Join the club! :lol:

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline rndmnwierd

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 04:33:39 PM »
Thank you!

Offline strawb3rrykream

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2009, 06:02:50 AM »
*tip-toes into thread*
Just wanna get it off my chest...I have so many incomplete stories and so many others to read and NO FUCKING TIME!!!! :angry:
*sighs* Well, I feel a little better now. :D
*sneaks back out unnoticed*

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2009, 06:13:33 AM »
^*grabs by scruff of neck*

Oi, I noticed! *shakes you*

XD

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline strawb3rrykream

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 06:18:02 AM »
*dangles quite high above the ground and flails limbs*
 XD

Offline Estrea

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 06:26:10 AM »
:P

*twirls you around and bear hugs* :D

You be one of our babies here. XD Feeling bad is normal, just don't dwell on it.

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline writerjunkie

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2009, 03:46:20 AM »
*peeks in*

Hehe, I'm just gonna show up for a second. I'm not really that much of a poster other than fics and occasional commenting on other fics.  :sweatdrop: Damn me for being so shy.

But I figured I give in my two cents too to rndmnwierd.

I can understand what you're going through. I have the same problem. I tend to think of more ideas than I can write and right now I have so many fics I doubt I'll be able to finish them all or even start to write them. I just can't focus on one thing for long. It goes the same way with my drawing or with any writing and reading that I have to do for my English class. I also feel that all my my stories is a piece of crap and the only fic I consider decent is This Thing Called Love, but even then it can be fixed to be better.

I always aim for things that are more goals that are higher than where my skills are either for writing or draw, because those are the two things I enjoy the most. Those are the two hobbies I'm so passionate about. I always want to get better. I always want to make the best fic and my readers mean so much to me. Yes that's good, but it can start to be a bad thing. I've noticed since now I'm in a rut and I can't even fix it. I'm stuck and becoming so highly stressed at my lack of updates.

But it helps to just take a break or try to gather your thoughts with writing notes or yes like Estrea said, talking to others about your newest idea. I've done it a few times and a fic that I was struggling on to be funny turned out to be extremely funny because I shared my ideas with a few friends. It doesn't work for me sometimes and I still become too hard on myself. I still am. I haven't written anything for weeks.

I know it's tough for you though, but if you can try to relax first and go over it slowly with others and try not to panic it will help. Don't be harsh on yourself like me or you'll end up where I am now. I can relate to ADHD in a way also, because I have ADD and it can be both a good thing and a bad thing, but if you can balance it out and keep it in check you should do fine. It isn't easy though.

Ah, well, I think I've said what I could. *slips back out*

Offline FaqU

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 06:32:08 AM »
*sticks head in and looks left then right before stepping fully in*

Just gotta post my thoughts to rndmnwierd,

Girl, ya got support here and believe me when I say that because no one that I converse with face-to-face understands the joy I have in reading and writing fics nor do I see that they want to understand.  I only started writing myself because of the great writers, in which I have had the pleasure of reading their works, and finally I got advice as to pace, length, proper dialogue structures etc (thanks lil hamz). 

So if ya ever need to bounce ideas and if I am of use, feel free!!!!  :thumbsup

Don't let your past actions affect your future because the past is out of your hands now but you definitely have the hand in creating your future.  Don't worry too much about not finishing something in the past, get help in trying to finish in the future right?  GanbaReina!!!!!

PS You make more sense than I do hun and that's good enough for me  :lol:

*salutes and marches out hup-two-three-four*

Offline rndmnwierd

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 06:55:44 AM »
Aww, thanks a lot guys. Your comments really make me feel better about stuff. I was just telling my friend tonight how proud I was of myself for maturing so much in the past two years, it's almost as if my deeds don't haunt me anymore. Which is awesome because I hate looking into the past.

I made it a goal for myself to try and write a little bit every day. A few sentences to a paragraph or two before work in the morning, after morning shift and when I get home at night. It's slow going, but I'm doing alright now.

Whenever I get sick of writing or just need to stop, I surf the web for a while and then get back to whatever I was doing before. I've also started trying to talk to my friends in terms that apply to them. And when I start to panic about my self imposed deadlines, yet another goal, I force myself to take a break. I believe in you guys and I know my readers and fellow authors will still be here to support me.




Wow, I feel as if I should have started this reply with, "Hi, my name is rndmnwierd and I'm an alcohol- erm, I mean, a writer."

Offline writerjunkie

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Re: The Fanfic Rant Hole
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 03:09:23 PM »
^ That's good to hear rndmnwierd. You're getting some writing done and going somewhere at a steady pace. I've never thought of that. I just stop writing for weeks or months and hope something comes up, but I am starting to make some notes now. Yes, you have plenty of supporting from many people as I can see so don't worry. Besides if you panic well that's what friends are for to be there and listen to you rant and run around in circles. lol  But don't rush yourself. Do you're best. ^_^

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