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Author Topic: Official Racing Thread  (Read 76936 times)

Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:39 PM »
Quote from: yokotapioka
Quote from: TheQuickening
If anyone's to blame, it's Michelin.  They didn't do the research that they should have done.  By not doing this they didn't build the tire that they should have for the race.


 that's right  but ...    why they just " skipped" the rules and jus  change the "weak " tires ... i mean ..  it's for the emotion a the safety of all ..


There's no way that the FIA would "skip" the rules, as you put it.  They're very, VERY, VERY, VEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY strict when it comes to enforcing the rules.  

As far as changing the "weak tires",  to what exactly were they supposed to change them?  ALL of the Michelin tires had the same problem, and Michelin told the teams that ALL of the tires that they had given them were unsafe to use on the track.  They could not switch to Bridgestones, because they were under contract to Michelin.  The Michelin teams were not given any safe choice, and for that Michelin is to blame.




Did I mention that the FIA is "very strict"?  Because they are, you know.

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Offline ctz

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« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2005, 12:19:09 AM »
I guess we all agree that Michelin fucked up and they're the biggest to blame. I'm just saying that FIA chose a wrong time to be strict about the rules (No, FIA isn't always VERY strict about rules, ask Ferrari). They chose to stand behind their principles... Ok, nice, but no one really cares. The thing which everyone cares about is that  there was no real racing last weekend. And I think this mess was way too expensive price for being strict about rules.

The other guy who lost his prestige in my eyes, was Bernie Ecclestone. A little man with great power... Not. If anyone, he would be the one could have bring off a compromise of some kind.

Although I believe they would have had a good race if the problem would have been realized earlier. It seemed that no one knew what's going to happen... Michelin or the teams should have stated clearly and early, that they're not gonna race without a chicane (or something).

Like TheQuickening said, the most stupid thing to do now is to penalize teams. I don't want to see the championship getting stained by this mess (I guess it cannot be helped if Ferrari wins it with points from this race though).
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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2005, 08:24:34 PM »
So now apparently the FIA is close to (if they haven't already) charging the 7 teams that had Michelins for withdrawing from the race and, get this...for making F1 and the FIA "LOOK BAD"!!!  (I think the actual terminology used was "damaging the image of F1 motorsport" or something like that).  Seriously, get real!!! To blame the teams is complete bullshit!!!  The ones who should face charges (in anyone) is Michelin for fucking up with their tires and causing the race to be fucked up.  :x  :x  :x


Quote from: ctz
I guess we all agree that Michelin fucked up and they're the biggest to blame. I'm just saying that FIA chose a wrong time to be strict about the rules (No, FIA isn't always VERY strict about rules, ask Ferrari).[/color]  


Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of when Ferrari has broken the rules in recent years and the FIA let them get away with it?  I personally could not think of any myself.

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Offline ctz

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« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2005, 11:55:55 PM »
Maybe it's easier to FIA to blame teams. At least they have broken some actual rules. FIA sees teams responsible for refusing driving slower in the banked curve.

I wonder what kind of race it would have been if Michelin teams would have had a speed limit in the fastest part of the circuit. Even Arrows might have overtaken McLarens and Renaults...

Quote from: TheQuickening

Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of when Ferrari has broken the rules in recent years and the FIA let them get away with it?  I personally could not think of any myself.


The case to which I was referring to was in October 1999 Malaysia GP, where it was noticed that Ferrari's air deflectors have been too wide.
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Offline amuse

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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2005, 02:13:31 AM »
Good news for BMW fans and bad news for Williams fans...
I wonder if BMW will end up running their own car in F1 within the next few years :D

BMW buys Sauber (officially)
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050622150618.shtml
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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2005, 09:20:28 PM »
Quote from: ctz
Maybe it's easier to FIA to blame teams. At least they have broken some actual rules. FIA sees teams responsible for refusing driving slower in the banked curve.

I wonder what kind of race it would have been if Michelin teams would have had a speed limit in the fastest part of the circuit. Even Arrows might have overtaken McLarens and Renaults...
[/color]

These guys are paid to drive fast, to ask them to slow down when they are supposed[/i] to be going full throttle is insanely stupid by the FIA.  It would be like asking Dubya to stop being a Texas Republican, or asking a baseball player to ONLY hit singles and to NOT hit any more homeruns.  It's all they know how to do and to ask them to do so otherwise is totally contrary to their training and natural instincts.  If they had agreed to slow down at that curve, then they wouldn't have been doing their job properly. Also, it would have allowed the Bridgestone teams, who did NOT have to slow down, a prime chance to pass or extend a lead.


Quote from: ctz
Quote from: TheQuickening

Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of when Ferrari has broken the rules in recent years and the FIA let them get away with it?  I personally could not think of any myself.


The case to which I was referring to was in October 1999 Malaysia GP, where it was noticed that Ferrari's air deflectors have been too wide.[/color]

Ah, yes.  I remember that now.  I think that it was after that race and the controversy behind those air deflectors that the FIA has gotten super-strict on enforcing the rules, right?


Quote from: amuse
Good news for BMW fans and bad news for Williams fans...
I wonder if BMW will end up running their own car in F1 within the next few years :D

BMW buys Sauber (officially)
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050622150618.shtml

If BMW does decide to turn Sauber into their own team, there's no reason why they wouldn't want to/be able to supply Williams with BMW engines.  Currently, Sauber is using engines supplied by Ferrari, so it wouldn't be something unheard of.

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Offline Hamasaki_Yoshizawa

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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2005, 07:08:07 AM »
I like racing :D But I am more of the Drift style fan. D1 Gran Prix all the way! IMO, American Racing is kind of boring. You know, NASCAR? All it does is go around circles turning left all the time just to see who gets in the positions and all. I don't know...

Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2005, 10:49:03 PM »
Quote from: Hamasaki_Yoshizawa
I like racing :D But I am more of the Drift style fan. D1 Gran Prix all the way! IMO, American Racing is kind of boring. You know, NASCAR? All it does is go around circles turning left all the time just to see who gets in the positions and all. I don't know...


This is my personal explanation for why NASCAR is so popular in the States.  For one thing, its one of the few, if not the only MAJOR racing circuit that's exclusively or dominated by American drivers.  American drivers can't hack it in F1, plain and simple, there hasn't been an American driver in F1 since Michael Andretti drove for McLaren, like what, 15 years ago?  In Champ Car and IRL, the Americans compete against Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Japanese, South/Latin Americans, a couple Germans and Swedes I think, etc., etc.  Drifting was brought over by the Asians, Rally racing was brought over by Europeans, and so on, and so on.  NASCAR is American (particularly redneck American).  When there's a virtual guarantee that an American will win the race, then Americans will watch.  Why would they want to watch a British guy win and IRL race, or a Brazillian in Champ Car, or anyone in F1 when there's good ol' Americans like Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Dale Jr. in NASCAR?  It's like the American coverage of the Olympic games.  They only show the finals of an event, and ONLY if there's an American in medal contention.  Every other event gets ignored by the American networks (at least that's what I've been told by the Americans I know who are now hooked on the Canadian Olympic coverage).

But back to NASCAR,  you know how as little kids, if we saw a hamster in it's cage, and it would run on that little wheel of his/hers?  As kids, we could just watch that hamster run in that whell for hours if we had the chance.  That's what NASCAR is to the American public.  The cars go round and round and round just like that wheel that the hamster runs in.

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Offline Hamasaki_Yoshizawa

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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2005, 06:09:21 AM »
Haha, I guess you're right. :) :P

Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2005, 09:10:31 PM »
Quote from: TheQuickening
But back to NASCAR,  you know how as little kids, if we saw a hamster in it's cage, and it would run on that little wheel of his/hers?  As kids, we could just watch that hamster run in that whell for hours if we had the chance.  That's what NASCAR is to the American public.  The cars go round and round and round just like that wheel that the hamster runs in.


Really weird, and yet interesting NASCAR news.  I was in the garage this morning and had the radio on.  All of a sudden the news gets to the sports report and it says that this coming Sunday's NASCAR race is going to be done on...get this...A ROAD COURSE!!!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   I was like, WTF!!!  Totally caught ME off guard, NASCAR doing a road course?  Go figure.  I guess they finally decided to put their drivers in a more "realistic" race (I say "realistic" in the fact that they'll have to turn both left AND right for this race, like in real life driving, unlike their usual ovals where they only turn left).  

It'd be interesting to watch and see how they do, though I'm still sort of undecided as to whether I will or not.

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Offline Hamasaki_Yoshizawa

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« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2005, 12:28:50 AM »
Haha, I might see this :P

Left AND right XD XD :lol:

Offline amuse

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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2005, 04:00:05 AM »
Speaking of non-oval racing.....
Everyone always mentions how NASCAR is boring oval racing but have you seen the tracks for IRL? When you see the cars you'd think they're in a similiar class as other Formula cars like Formula Nippon, F3000, etc.. so they should be running in real technical circuits correct? NO! Just look at the race schedule for 2005... HAHA



Only 3/17 tracks are non-oval style  :?
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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2005, 04:32:16 AM »
Quote from: amuse
Speaking of non-oval racing.....
Everyone always mentions how NASCAR is boring oval racing but have you seen the tracks for IRL? When you see the cars you'd think they're in a similiar class as other Formula cars like Formula Nippon, F3000, etc.. so they should be running in real technical circuits correct? NO! Just look at the race schedule for 2005... HAHA



Only 3/17 tracks are non-oval style  :?


Since when did I say that IRL races predominantly run on road courses?  Oh yeah...I NEVER DID!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   We had discussed earlier in this thread that IRL is an open-wheel version of NASCAR.  And yes, I find it boring as well.  The only IRL race I ever make an effort to consider watching is the Indy 500.  This year Indy was GREAT because of, well, you have to have watched it in order to understand what made it great this year *ahem* Danica *ahem*.

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Offline ctz

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« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2005, 10:26:11 AM »
Quote from: TheQuickening

If BMW does decide to turn Sauber into their own team, there's no reason why they wouldn't want to/be able to supply Williams with BMW engines.  Currently, Sauber is using engines supplied by Ferrari, so it wouldn't be something unheard of.


Although if BMW has its own team, I don't think they would give the same engine to Williams too. They probably would have a latest engine for their own cars and sell other engines to Williams. As being a top team, I don't think Williams would want "second-class" engines.
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Offline amuse

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« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2005, 05:55:20 PM »
IRL is the home of Formula 1 rejects :lol:
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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2005, 07:44:59 PM »
Quote from: amuse
IRL is the home of Formula 1 rejects :lol:


I would say that that is more accurate with Champ Car.  Among their current drivers include Justin Wilson (ex-Jaguar/RedBull), Cristiano da Matta (ex-Toyota), and Timo Glock (ex-Jordan).  Come to think of it, I not sure IRL has any former F1 drivers/rejects.  They probably would not be able to stand being limited to only turning left, anyway. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Do you know of anyone in particular?

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Offline amuse

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« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2005, 05:43:26 AM »
Oh you're right. I keep forgetting who drives for which series :(
I haven't watched these in so many years cuz I got bored of their racing. There's only so much oval racing one man can handle  :lol:
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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2005, 09:53:52 PM »
F1 and Champ Car, road racing is the way to go.

On another note, apparently the team principal of Minardi is threatening to boycott the next race (maybe more) if the FIA chooses to "punish" the Michelin teams who pulled out of the USGP in Indy.  Kinda weird, considering that Minardi was one of the three teams that actually took part in the race, since they have Bridgestone tires. I guess the bottom line is that he's saying that the teams had no choice but to pull out for safety reasons, that it was the fault of Michelin.  Looks like there IS some solidarity amongst the racing teams, after all.

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Offline ohbahsan

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« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2005, 10:51:11 PM »
Quote from: TheQuickening
On another note, apparently the team principal of Minardi is threatening to boycott the next race (maybe more) if the FIA chooses to "punish" the Michelin teams who pulled out of the USGP in Indy.  Kinda weird, considering that Minardi was one of the three teams that actually took part in the race, since they have Bridgestone tires. I guess the bottom line is that he's saying that the teams had no choice but to pull out for safety reasons, that it was the fault of Michelin.  Looks like there IS some solidarity amongst the racing teams, after all.


all the teams except ferrari had an understanding to quit the race when they couldn't reach a compromise with FIA.  minardi only raced when jordan reneged on the agreement, since as the bottom dwellers they are effectively competing with each other.

i saw an interview with paul stoddart where he was totally pissed about the whole debacle and jordan.  he said he didn't care for the outcome of the race, and you know it because he was being interviewed while the race was still going on.

Offline ctz

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« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2005, 08:35:04 PM »
FIA announced today that the seven Michelin teams were found guilty for not having raceable tires and refusing to race. Possible penalties are announced in september.

They also stated that FIA can't judge Michelin, because it has no officialconnections to the tyre supplier. Michelin works only for teams.

I don't understand why they have to postpone it till september. It would be good if they would try to get rid of this mess as soon as possible. Maybe they think that if they penalize teams now, they might boycott races again as a protest.
I think it's stupid to blame teams about this and ridiculous if FIA can't do anything when a tyre supplier fucks up.
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