Oh my, I seem to be a little late to the party. In fact, 28 pages late (all of which i read, just to get caught up). It took a lot of strength not to throw out quips to all of the banter running back and forth, and I'm going to try to put my ideas into something coherent (at the risk of this post getting lost once more flood in). I'll preface this by saying that a lot of what i have to say echoes what jb
already wrote, so please give that a read if you haven't already.
A number of points below will be based on my subjectivity. Feel free to reply or ignore, but at least read the first section, because I think it's the most important to the topic at hand.On NationalityThe particular portion of pop culture we are talking about here in reference to H!P and Momusu needs to be understood as Idolism. Within it, the key point to success (and is marketed as such by the idols themselves) is physical appearance, namely cuteness, and additionally cute phrases or cute dances and anything that can generally be adapted to become cute. Nowhere in this formula is there a specification for nationality of the idol. However, it seems that within this brand of pop culture, Japan has really been the only country that has been able to spearhead its development. Naturally, the idols are Japanese, in accordance to be able to sell a product to a national audience. In this way, all of the idols of Momusu have been and are, up until now, Japanese.
If you recognize or take part in Idolism as a fan, you recognize the staggering reality that the majority of idols you know and love are Japanese. But Idolism never specified it, so the belief that Idolism must include "Japanese" is a misconception that stems from the fanbase. A few people (and perhaps it's only a few because it's JPH!P) seem to hint at the inability for Idolism to accept other nationalities. Just because you look at "Japan" and see "Idols", doesn't mean that when you look at "Idols" you always have to see "Japanese". If you believe someone of another nationality would not be successful, or would (more strongly) be detremental to the current state of Idolism, I submit that you have a jaded view of Idolism and Japan, and have an unwillingness to understand the two as two separate things.
On National RelationsPolitics has little to do with Idolism. And in similar fashion, Idolism has little to do with Politics. Don't forget that.
Not all of asia hates Japan. There are certain things about Japan that are holding back certain parts of foreign relations from progress, and while propaganda may have more strength in China... Politics has little to do with Idolism.
Not all of Taiwan hates China. In fact, it's split almost 50/50, with the disagreements resulting from governmental policy only.
Also, don't get sucked into believing that a new cross-cultural Idolism will cure problems of Politics. I find it highly unlikely that the highest government officials will discuss matters of international policy based off of the latest pop-artist releases. Idolism has little to do with Politics.
On Li Chun and Qian LinQian Lin knows basic Japanese. I would rate her at about 2nd year, with extensive experience within Japan. Li Chun has little if any. In the
announcement video, you can catch a glimpse of Li Chun's narrator assisting in translation.
JunJun and LinLin are their nicknames. In Chinese culture, it is fashionable to create nicknames in this fashion of "cute", similar to Japan's "-chan". Considering H!P will need both Li Chun and Qian Li to warm up to the Momusu girls as soon as possible, it makes sense (to me) that they would use cute nicknames (as friends would do) rather than their formal names, in order to help bridge the gap.
If you feel that there is hidden xenophobia within the nicknames (such as equating them with the likes of Pandas), I believe that you are too enamoured with Japan, and know very little about other Asian cultures. Honestly, do you think H!P and Momusu are out to racially profile these two? H!P and Momusu need to make the girls feel welcome into the world of Idolism. The best way to do that is to use a level of communication that Li Chun and Qian Lin are familiar with. And their nicknames, which I'm sure are (the Japanese phoneticization of) their Chinese nicknames (albeit slightly different pronunciations), are the perfect way, irrespective of any pre-existing epithets about pandas. If you still think it has to do with pandas... that's your own misguided view.
This also applies to the video of
. I personally find Mandarin to be a little bit harsh of a language when it comes to pop songs. Ballads and traditional songs sound beautiful, as it were. I will admit I agree Li Chun's singing isn't quite up to par, but I am not basing my judgement under the condition of only ever listening to Japanese music (because if somebody did, anything that
wasn't Japanese would probably sound bad).
On the girls learning JapaneseJapanese borrow a slew of characters from Chinese. A number of the pronunciations of the words are based off of the approximation, in Japanese, of how a Chinese person would say it. Dictionary-level meaning is largely in-tact.
There are most certainly nuances that clearly separate the two languages. Japanese is as much a robust culture in its own as Chinese is, and the languages reflect that.
However, Li Chun and Qian Lin are out to become idols, not philosophers. The bulk of Japanese that will become most relevant to their career will consist of
aishiteru,
dakishimete, and other cute responses. I seriously doubt that any fan will ask them to ponder philosophically about various international issues (or what have you), so I wouldn't be worried about their ability to pick up Japanese.
For everyone else, let it be a message that Japanese is a beautiful and robust language that exposes a multitude of facets about Japanese culture, far beyond the realm of Idolism. If you're using H!P to get into learning Japanese, keep it in mind and use it as motivation. If you're continuing (as I am), then
ganbattekudasai!On Li Chun and Qian Lin in MomusuI agree that Simmin was a litmus test. Some believe that introducing the two into the primary H!P group is too risky. Yes, on the one hand, it is very risky. But on the other hand, if Tsunku doesn't do something revolutionary, his flavor of music-and-dance Idolism is eventually going to collapse (and let's be honest, international fan support doesn't help very much because... well, at this point, H!P isn't exactly
international). So, best-case-scenario: Li Chun and Qian Lin hit it big, H!P goes international within asia, Tsunku's flavor of Idolism survives, and even grows. Worst-case-scenario: well, it was going to go down anyway.
I agree with JB that Li Chun and Qian Lin will most likely return as ambassadors to China, and to begin something in the likes of a Hello! Project China. Although I don't think the timing is right. Two acts from China are not enough to return and open up an entire industry. You would need a larger group, more variety for the fans, something about the size of... the original Momusu! (who would've thought?). That said, I can't forsee Momusu taking on additional international idols. For one, it harms the investment of current fans who love their Japanese idols. For another, it sends a mixed message about the placement of Idol pop culture: will
all Idols end up going to Japan? Most likely, I see Momusu becoming a sister-act to another Momusu-type group. Not subgroups or lesser acts, but equal, and with the second either returning to or touring internationally.
On the state of Idolism in JapanWith all of this said, I think we all need to recognize that Idolism isn't what drives Japan (in regard to the contention that Idolism is currently based in Japan). We may all happen to be fans of H!P, but that's the nature of this forum. In day-to-day life in Japan, you are hard pressed to find conversations about, or admissions of fandom to, H!P and Momusu... except perhaps within particular hot-zones (H!P shops, otaku areas, etc). Japan is a country with a robust culture of unimaginable magnitude, and believe it or not, Idolism is merely a sliver in the whole pie.
I think it is for this reason that current fans are as devoted as they are, especially international fans, considering the sliver of H!P to be a gem among everything else. But it is this type of devotion that can turn in against itself, creating things like xenophobia and childish flames online. In this regard, I see this "expansion" into China as doubly-beneficial: 1) it will help broaden the scope of Idolism, and it seems that China is hungry for such a product, meaning that Idolism as a concept can grow, and in doing so, 2) it offers recourse for the current fans to become reborn again into their fandom, understanding Idolism in a new way. In this way, it makes sense for Tsunku to invite the girls as "Exchange Students", rather than simply to build up a separate empire in China (isolated from Japan), and have it begin to fall apart as is happening (to one extent or another) in Japan.
With these considerations, I will end with...
On the state of the FansPerhaps the biggest problem fans of Idol figures face is a lack of recognition. You are afraid to go public, admit, divulge, and so on, about your fandom, out of fear of criticism or alienation. This varies from person to person, and location to location. But I would say that it's generally understood as a condition that exists as-is.
Well, wouldn't it be great if something could come along that could change Idolism in such a way that would give it more recognition, greater coverage, larger appreciation?
Well... wouldn't it?
That's all for now.
Topic: [News] Two Chinese Girls To MORNING MUSUME! (Read 63567 times)