JPHiP Forum
General => Sports => Topic started by: daigong on March 17, 2005, 08:54:30 AM
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In anticipation of Shaq v Kobe II there was this awesome quote by Shaq comparing his proteges to the Corleone boys:
"The difference between those three is the Godfather trilogy," O'Neal said in classic Shaq-speak. "One is Fredo, who was never ready for me to hand it over to him. One is Sonny, who will do whatever it takes to be the man, and one is Michael, who if you watch the trilogy, the Godfather hands it over to Michael. So I have no problem handing it over to Dwyane."
(http://img148.exs.cx/img148/7932/shaqvkobe139og.jpg)
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nypost/20050316/sp_nypost/onealdwyaneslikemike
So who do you like: Shaq or Kobe?
Another hilarious article from ESPN.com comparing them to 2Pac and Biggie:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/050316
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Personally, I like them both...
Shaq is a freak who I regard as the most dominant big man, period.
(yeah, I know you can't compare him with the past greats, but that size and strength, combine with agility and soft hands...you can't find that combination anywhere...if ever again.)
Kobe is one of my favourite players, so...
Pretty cool quote by Shaq though:)
While Lakers may disagree, I think Shaq's move to Miami was great for the neutral fans, not only does it create a new source of rivalry, it allows Shaq to be the undisputed 'man' while it gives Kobe much more room to mature.
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I used to like them, but they're annoying this year.
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Heat won. whooppeeeeee
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Kobe, he is just dropped to the bottom of my fav list after all those stupid shit he had done.
I am sick of WWE's style dunk ball. At least MJ's dunk and others were prettier with more style. So Shaq never considered a great bball player in my pov. I know all ppl disagree but I don't give a rat ass. I still can remember vividly what were those feelings when I saw what Miller did in Madison Garden in that 8pts in 13sec or Glen Rice vs Steve Smith both of them were unstoppable to each other. And how Olajuwan schooled Shaq showing him power were nothing in the 1995 Finals. Those were sure more enjoyable than watching Shaq using his size just to push out players and dunk.
Just look at nba new generation now, who can really shoot the ball well consistently except those few foreign players? Bball is evolving to a sports that doesn't need skills anymore imo.
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Aw man...tonite's game was sick and embarassing from a Laker fan standpoint. 1 for 11 Kobe?? Ah man, good to see everyone jump off the bandwagon though...
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Just look at nba new generation now, who can really shoot the ball well consistently except those few foreign players? Bball is evolving to a sports that doesn't need skills anymore imo.
Sounds as though the bashing had gone a bit too far...
it is true that the modern game now relies on more Athleticism than before, that everyone is encourage to drive in for a close-range shot or drew a foul rather than take a jumper...but the fact is, the game has evolved to the point where everyone's so athletic that you can't rely on being a pure shooter anymore.
While Reggie M has a nice stroke, and is great at the clutch, his main reason for hitting his shots is his ability to run behind screen, after screen, after screen, after screen...In my view, the only guy to survive in the NBA by pureply being a pure shooter is Jeff Hornacek, coz he's so shit at everything else.
In my view, it is not that the younger generation can't shoot anymore, on any given day, the like of Kobe, T-Mac etc has jump shots that is absolutely undefendable...it is just they take bad shots and a lot of times, really bad shots. So in my view, it is mostly bad shot selection rather not having or learning the fundamental skill to shoot.
Now I want to ramble on.
With a about dozen games to go, perhaps we should have a look at the players this year who had taken decent shots...and knows how to shoot the ball.
1. Lebron
The freak earns 26per game on 49% and 7.4 assist...for goodness sake, he's even shooting 36% from behind the arc...
2. Dwaye
The other freak's getting 23 points on 48/49% shooting, and dishing out 7 assists.
3. Rashard Lewis
The American version of Dirk. He shoots 47% from the floor, 40% from behind the arc, he can handle and drive, he's 6-10 and gets 20 points per game.
Then you got the white dudes that in the game almost purely because they shoot like M. Miller, Wally etc. that gets above 50% from the floor...and special note for J. Terry, who's finally starting to play point and shots above .500 for the first time.
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Just look at nba new generation now, who can really shoot the ball well consistently except those few foreign players? Bball is evolving to a sports that doesn't need skills anymore imo.
Sounds as though the bashing had gone a bit too far...
it is true that the modern game now relies on more Athleticism than before, that everyone is encourage to drive in for a close-range shot or drew a foul rather than take a jumper...but the fact is, the game has evolved to the point where everyone's so athletic that you can't rely on being a pure shooter anymore.
While Reggie M has a nice stroke, and is great at the clutch, his main reason for hitting his shots is his ability to run behind screen, after screen, after screen, after screen...In my view, the only guy to survive in the NBA by pureply being a pure shooter is Jeff Hornacek, coz he's so shit at everything else.
In my view, it is not that the younger generation can't shoot anymore, on any given day, the like of Kobe, T-Mac etc has jump shots that is absolutely undefendable...it is just they take bad shots and a lot of times, really bad shots. So in my view, it is mostly bad shot selection rather not having or learning the fundamental skill to shoot.
Now I want to ramble on.
With a about dozen games to go, perhaps we should have a look at the players this year who had taken decent shots...and knows how to shoot the ball.
1. Lebron
The freak earns 26per game on 49% and 7.4 assist...for goodness sake, he's even shooting 36% from behind the arc...
2. Dwaye
The other freak's getting 23 points on 48/49% shooting, and dishing out 7 assists.
3. Rashard Lewis
The American version of Dirk. He shoots 47% from the floor, 40% from behind the arc, he can handle and drive, he's 6-10 and gets 20 points per game.
Then you got the white dudes that in the game almost purely because they shoot like M. Miller, Wally etc. that gets above 50% from the floor...and special note for J. Terry, who's finally starting to play point and shots above .500 for the first time.
It's true that there are still few good shooters in the league, but you hardly feel the people is appreciating the skill. The 3 pt competition in ASG is just another indicator, years ago participants have to shoot at least 19 to win the 1st round. This year 19 pts (I don't remember exact) is the highest first round score already. I wonder if there will be another guy who can score perfect or close to perfect like Bird or Kerr again. I am not saying the NBA should stop ppl dunking, but I don't think it is as enjoyable to watch compare to the past when players have real talents. SF is an example of those kind of althetic player; he can't shoot, can't pass, TO prone. I can say there are players in his level in the And1 league or the Harlem team. But he is considered a star in NBA, I just never get it. Kobe and T-Mac is a good shooter (AI too when he is hot) but never a consistent one like the past greats eg. MJ, Karl Malone, etc. Those people who can shoot over 45% night in and night out.
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Haha, you might be a bit hard on SF, but I'm not too keen on 'combo' guards myself so...(I'm still kind of an old-fashion guy that wants a 'pure' point in my team.)
And you're right on the consistency...what really bugs me is that Kobe shot above .450 for five seasons between 98-02 and T-mac in his first three seasons at orlando...but it seems that everyone is just taking bad shots in the last two years.
In my view, such is my reluctancy to accept full-time 'combo' guards, that it is because because they are simply too many guys handling that shoots first, pass second. While talent like MJ or T-Mac can survive without a proper point (I'll like to see a better point playing with Kobe than Chucky), I think teams would generally improve with a 'pass-first' point guard. Like Nash with the suns this year, Chicago starts two point guards, I think Philly's better when Snow was around....
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RAMBLING!! FUCKIN GOOD! :thumbsup ... I gotta catch up with Masashi in the postwhoring but yeah, the NBA style is ugly. With zone defense - it was supposed to allow for guys like Allen Iverson to shoot but you got ugly defense. Double Triple Teams make it annoying.
It's just amazing that Kobe can have three guys on him and still make the bucket. I love Shaq AND Kobe. They played so well together for those great 8 years.
See how they "almost" shook hands:
(http://img106.exs.cx/img106/558/shaqkobe021bv.jpg)
http://rapidshare.de/files/922001/lol_1_..OWNED.mpg.html
It's just sad to see Kobe surrounded by less than quality players. Lamar Odom maybe. But the rest still have much to prove.
The NBA loved that they split up. It makes for even more storylines...the truth was, I believe it was during the All-Star game that they acknowledged each other in the hall. It's all a show with Shaq making disses at Kobe. Loser Laker fans don't see that.
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It's just amazing that Kobe can have three guys on him and still make the bucket. I love Shaq AND Kobe. They played so well together for those great 8 years.
See how they "almost" shook hands:
It's all a show with Shaq making disses at Kobe. Loser Laker fans don't see that.
LOL, what the crap was that.
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See how they "almost" shook hands:
(http://img106.exs.cx/img106/558/shaqkobe021bv.jpg)
http://rapidshare.de/files/922001/lol_1_..OWNED.mpg.html
OWNED :lol: :lol:
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I use to be an Anti-Shaq cause I use to think he was cheap but I see he actually has a lot of skill, no other big man has ever move or dominated like that. He has nice footwork for a big man.
Kobe is clutch, we all know it. Just that the current Lakers suck :)
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i used to love him and penny so much as a kid. until the day he went to lakers where i started to dislike him. but as time goes on my dislike over him is over, so now i like him even more that he is in HEAT!!!
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I used to really like that Orlando team..
Shaq, Penny, Grant, Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson...
Brian shaw...and hell, chuck in Donald Royal as well...
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I like them both actually, when they still in Lakers and Lakers is still dominant in NBA *Since i think it's only a story now*. But yea both of them r great. :)
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i used to love the 95 Magic squad!!!i like them better than Chicago until Shaq decide to go to Lakers. it was sad to see Magic get their ASS kicked by the rockets in the finals.
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Its kinda hard watching Kobe get so frustrated on the court this season. Anyways, being a Laker fan and all, Kobe's my main man. So in some ways, I hate Shaq for being so good and leaving us in the end. I blame Mitch Kupchak, but I still hate Shaq for being so dominant. Don't get me wrong though, when Shaq was with the Lakers, it was hard for me to pick a favorite.
This is a little old, and a little off-topic, but its a good read for those who haven't checked out Phil Jackson's book yet.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/10/12/jackson/
It's kinda anti-Kobe from Jackson's perspective, but you'll start to understand the guy and the hard time he's going through.
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Now that the so-called Rivalry (Shaq won 3 before Kobe won 1 game) ... drama is over. Kobe v Shaq is one of the best stories has come to an end.
Do you think the NBA will ever have any rivalries to match this one? I'm hoping Heat and the Lakers can get better so they'd be fighting in the Finals. Better than Pistons-Spurs :tired
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This was interesting...how very true.
Russell also talked about his advice to Shaquille O'Neal to end his public feud with Kobe Bryant.
"The only people it's hurting are you and your families," Russell told him.
Think about it: the NBA and its TV partners were actually profiting from it, staging their rematches on Christmas and Martin Luther King's Day to draw higher ratings. Russell also told O'Neal that he would have to be the one to end it. Since Bryant would have more to gain publicly by taking the first step, it might seem disingenuous if he initiated it. O'Neal's peace offering would carry more weight."An act of kindness is an act of strength," Russell said.
Words of wisdom we all can follow.
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yups...like bot shaq n kobe...couldnt decide...hehehe...
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OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH just in time for pre-season!!
MORE SHAQ KOBE FEUD!! XD
"The first three championships that I won, I won them. I had big numbers and I won them," O'Neal told the AP. "And last year, the guys won it for me. They won it for the big guy. Numbers are overrated. There's a lot of guys in this league who can say they've got great numbers. But they can't say they've got four rings in the last six years."
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/15648400.htm
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bah...Mavericks should have won
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I like them both equally. Though I think shaq's probably the better role model
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Kobe is a really entertaining player. My eyes are glued to the TV whenever I watch his highlights. Shaq has great power and center skills, but he's boring more than half the time.
I know I really didn't mention basketball skills in general, but I prefer Kobe. :D
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kobe's got that intensity in him. not to say Shaq isn't exciting to watch, but he is getting older..
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as proven at maiami, if you put shaq in a team with another good player. the team will dominate. not necessary with kobe.
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Shaq is a good player. But Kobe is a more allrounder. He can play more flexibly than O'neal. Size still doesn't overpower SPeed. Speed is one of the important factors in basketball aside from the basics.
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my bet's on shaq
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Shaq!The big police is so Humorous and kind.
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Kobe's the greatest player that ever lived. He's got it all: medium range - long range jumpshot, lightning quick first step, great finisher to the basket, great low post player, and he's got amazing court vision, makes his teammates better. He does it all night in night out. All the work he puts into his game is nothing short of astounding. I mean, come on, who'd ever heard of a swingman scoring 80+ points? Only centers ever came that close. He's a legend in his own right.
On the other hand: Shaq. Yes he was the most dominant player in the game and I rooted for him when he was a Laker. But now: fat, old, lazy - an overgrown spoiled child with no work ethic who held a grudge with Kobe and the Laker organization after being traded like a spiteful 5 year old. Nuff said.
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i'm going with shaq, he oozes coolness.
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i think both of them should be together...
big shaq as center....and mighty kobe as multifunction player :)
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SHAQ ! :D
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shaq all the way, i wish kobe left the lakers instead of shaq...i wud still be a lakers fan if shaq was on the team.
actually i would be a lakers fan if kobe wasn't on the team...haha
i haveta admit tho he does carry the team and he does have skills
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when it comes to impact, shaq definitely makes more of it seeing that he's 300+ pounds. XD
when it comes to impact on the low block, shaq makes more of an impact offensively and defensively, and his presence just makes it difficult for the defense, while kobe is difficult to guard, i don't like his attitude and i think that's the reason why shaq won another championship and he didn't.