The Idoling!!! Episode Discussion Thread *spoiler alert*

[AEUGNewtype]

Man, your posts are so negative and opinionated I don't really have much else to discuss, since its just your personal doomsday predictions for the group and how much you dislike certain members and stuff.  All idol groups are "corrupt" to some degree since they all operate in a fairly innately corrupt industry, but if you think Idoling's behind the scenes corruption is bad right now, I guess you've been completely ignoring AKB for the last year or so? Girls are leaving left and right or requesting to go to other countries to get away, getting kicked out from scandals which may have been staged by the agency, getting shuffled around and getting showcased favoritism more than anything in idol history, etc.

It's really hard to fathom that HP would have turned out better if they didn't hit mainstream as you are suggesting. Even in their down-cycle, Morning Musume alone is still selling more CDs than Idoling ever could, what more proof do you need to understand that going mainstream is simply better? Are you really satisfied with Idoling's place in the industry of being anonymous and being nothing for most people in general public? I also like to let you know that Idoling still exist not because they are good enough in popularity, but because of their unique arrangement with FujiTV, and a dedicated man in charge with some corporate muscle, otherwise Idoling would've been gone a while ago. Staying status quo for Idoling is not an option anymore, they have to become more established in the mainstream otherwise FujiTV who is suffering from a bad economy will think twice of keeping Idoling on board.

Morning Musume has also now adopted the AKB style of promotion for singles, releasing 4-7 versions of each single as well as selling randomized individual member handshake tickets being included with CDs.  Of course they're going to sell more copies. There was a period in the last few years where their sales were gutter-trash bad compared to what they used to be, since the sales that remained were the hardcore fans that were drawn in from the popularity period, then they started the AKB promotions and sales shot back up again because the amount of products they were offering with the CDs got increased. 

And regardless of why Idoling still exists and is on the air, the fact remains that they still are.  And the fact that they are still around despite never getting mainstream popular OR selling that much means that they obviously don't need to sell that much to maintain themselves, as they probably make a ton of money from other merchandise and promotions/events that they do that don't involve selling CDs. Their budget seems to be fairly low for the TV show, yet they make the best of it.  They have very little crew, a pretty small studio, and the girls (just like most other idols) probably don't get paid any exorbitant amount to be there. Studies and research have actually been conducted and concluded that idols make the most of their profits from the promotional appearances/sponsorships that they do for corporations and that only about 6% of the money from CD sales is actually profit that the company can use, so in the grand scheme, and especially with how skewed the sales number are with groups like AKB and MM doing other tactics to make the numbers rise, CD sales really don't matter.

But that has been the staple of AKB from the beginning. It was in fact worse before they became mainstream, they were having raffles for the fans at the theater for these exclusive events where you get to bowl with the AKB members, and go on a boat cruise with AKB members. Things have toned down after they went mainstream because there would be too many jealous fans crying foul.

Going back to your point, hasn't Idolinig done a very skimpy PV in tight black shorts and t-shirt just recently? I find it just as tacky and commercialized than their earlier work, let's face it man, Idoling is becoming corrupt no matter what, might as well taste some success.

I know this is a staple from the beginning, and this is why I said it. I was merely stating that I'm glad Idoling hasn't done things that way, as it offers a nice alternative to what else is going on in the industry.  And seriously, if you consider One Up's outfits to be anywhere NEAR a lot of the stuff that AKB has gotten away with, you're way off.  One Up's outfits are just somewhat sporty, cool, fierce outfits, they don't scream "hey look at how slutty we are!" I don't get that vibe at all.  And if you look at them, they're all actually rather modest, since pretty much no cleavage is shown on any of the outfits, even though midriff and short shorts are present, those are common with any idols now and have been for years now, even with H!P and the like. Even the bikini's that Idoling has had in a few PVs (Poolside, Koufuku, etc.) were far more modest than anything AKB has done and were presented in a more fun way than provocative.

[SuzukiRyo]

tl;dr

1. Amimi is better MC-ing, because she is annoying if she appears behind members. (Hint: 919)
2. Nomoto's problem is more serious than Amimi.
3. Also staff is too much relying on Maipuru-Tonchan-Asahi-Amimi-Kaede. I'm so curious how this group will turn out if they graduate.
4. I found it fun to watch unprepared random chaotic Masuno-world episode. Watch him teasing some members. It is better than watching some random games in bikini.
5. #941 is terrible. #919 also terrible until Serina appear.
6. #943 this 放送事故 kind-of episode is fun. Just like the disaster on #611 and #459.
7. I don't really care about their music. I skipped every live performance and just watch them MC-ing instead.

I think Idolinger could be categorized in 6:
1. TV show fans, as long as the show still running, they don't care about member change. Usually Masuno fans.
2. Live fans, only come to small venue such as nicohachi, rarely in large venue such as numbering live.
3. Group fans, don't follow member's individual schedule, calendar, image DVD, TV appearance, and other shits.
4. Member fans, gone along if oshi graduates. Usually other group's fans.
5. God-mode fans, throwing money all directions, follow everything related to this group. Giving related stuffs to new fans.
6. Underground fans, love so much this group but never spent a cent. Me, pirates and some anonymous 2ch netizens. Well, temporary.

[cicily]

tl;dr

1. Amimi is better MC-ing, because she is annoying if she appears behind members. (Hint: 919)
2. Nomoto's problem is more serious than Amimi.
3. Also staff is too much relying on Maipuru-Tonchan-Asahi-Amimi-Kaede. I'm so curious how this group will turn out if they graduate.
4. I found it fun to watch unprepared random chaotic Masuno-world episode. Watch him teasing some members. It is better than watching some random games in bikini.
5. #941 is terrible. #919 also terrible until Serina appear.
6. #943 this 放送事故 kind-of episode is fun. Just like the disaster on #611 and #459.
7. I don't really care about their music. I skipped every live performance and just watch them MC-ing instead.

I think Idolinger could be categorized in 6:
1. TV show fans, as long as the show still running, they don't care about member change. Usually Masuno fans.
2. Live fans, only come to small venue such as nicohachi, rarely in large venue such as numbering live.
3. Group fans, don't follow member's individual schedule, calendar, image DVD, TV appearance, and other shits.
4. Member fans, gone along if oshi graduates. Usually other group's fans.
5. God-mode fans, throwing money all directions, follow everything related to this group. Giving related stuffs to new fans.
6. Underground fans, love so much this group but never spent a cent. Me, pirates and some anonymous 2ch netizens. Well, temporary.

I guess my fandom can be categorized as #1, #3 and part of #6 then. :p

[Jenus]

Man, your posts are so negative and opinionated I don't really have much else to discuss, since its just your personal doomsday predictions for the group and how much you dislike certain members and stuff.  All idol groups are "corrupt" to some degree since they all operate in a fairly innately corrupt industry, but if you think Idoling's behind the scenes corruption is bad right now, I guess you've been completely ignoring AKB for the last year or so? Girls are leaving left and right or requesting to go to other countries to get away, getting kicked out from scandals which may have been staged by the agency, getting shuffled around and getting showcased favoritism more than anything in idol history, etc.

I wouldn't say Idoling is doomed but they are not exactly going anywhere either, that's really my whole point. After all the money they spent promoting One Up!!! only to sell even less than the previous single clearly is not very encouraging.

There's no point in keep bringing up AKB, AKB has been run corrupt and chaotically since the beginning, Maeda Atsuko has been the favored center from the beginning, not since they hit mainstream as you suggest. Going mainstream is not the cause of AKB's corruption as you suggest at all, I have disproved your point already. Idoling will not turn into another AKB by going mainstream, it's just your fantasy, your worst fears are vastly unfounded in reality.

Instead of keep saying that Idoling doesn't have to go mainstream, I'd like to know if the fan-base even has the financial muscle to push Idoling into mainstream, that's the real question, otherwise what you are saying is just false bravado to avoid responsibility as a fan.

Morning Musume has also now adopted the AKB style of promotion for singles, releasing 4-7 versions of each single as well as selling randomized individual member handshake tickets being included with CDs.  Of course they're going to sell more copies. There was a period in the last few years where their sales were gutter-trash bad compared to what they used to be, since the sales that remained were the hardcore fans that were drawn in from the popularity period, then they started the AKB promotions and sales shot back up again because the amount of products they were offering with the CDs got increased.

Idoling adopted AKB style promotion even more with that 5th generation voting scheme, so if you are going to accuse Morninig Musume for shady promotional tactics, you'd have to include Idoling in there even more so. What is sad is that Idoling didn't really sell that many more CDs than usual even with the voting scheme.

Morning Musume had slow sales even with AKB style promotion, but lately they are on the rebound because of the new members, and a new interested in the group by the younger generation of youth, and the fact that they have been in the mainstream helped keep them around this long is undeniable, as being mainstream is the difference of having tons of fans all over the world instead of just in Japan.

And regardless of why Idoling still exists and is on the air, the fact remains that they still are.  And the fact that they are still around despite never getting mainstream popular OR selling that much means that they obviously don't need to sell that much to maintain themselves, as they probably make a ton of money from other merchandise and promotions/events that they do that don't involve selling CDs. Their budget seems to be fairly low for the TV show, yet they make the best of it.  They have very little crew, a pretty small studio, and the girls (just like most other idols) probably don't get paid any exorbitant amount to be there. Studies and research have actually been conducted and concluded that idols make the most of their profits from the promotional appearances/sponsorships that they do for corporations and that only about 6% of the money from CD sales is actually profit that the company can use, so in the grand scheme, and especially with how skewed the sales number are with groups like AKB and MM doing other tactics to make the numbers rise, CD sales really don't matter.

I suspect that the only reason FujiTV is keeping Idoling on board is because as I said before, the man in charge has corporate muscle, and Idoling is at least breaking even in net profit to not hurt FujiTV financially, but you are vastly mistaken if you think Idoling is on a solid footing as far as their existence is concerned because the TV show doesn't even have a corporate sponsor, that's a very shaky and unstable ground for a TV show as FujiTV's financial situation has direct implications on the show's survival.

Idoling doesn't have a permanent corporate sponsor unless if you count FujiTV, so they are not making much profit according to you, but from what I hear the most profit any idol group makes comes from merchandise sales (non-CD) at live events. Yeah you make more money from by doing corporate ads such as TV commercials, but what stupid company would hire an idol group that isn't even popular? Going mainstream and gaining popularity would fix that though.

Considering that AKB is selling CDs in the millions, I don't think the same 6% of overall profit even applies the way it would to Idoling or Morning Musume. So clearly, CD sales does matter.

I know this is a staple from the beginning, and this is why I said it. I was merely stating that I'm glad Idoling hasn't done things that way, as it offers a nice alternative to what else is going on in the industry.  And seriously, if you consider One Up's outfits to be anywhere NEAR a lot of the stuff that AKB has gotten away with, you're way off.  One Up's outfits are just somewhat sporty, cool, fierce outfits, they don't scream "hey look at how slutty we are!" I don't get that vibe at all.  And if you look at them, they're all actually rather modest, since pretty much no cleavage is shown on any of the outfits, even though midriff and short shorts are present, those are common with any idols now and have been for years now, even with H!P and the like. Even the bikini's that Idoling has had in a few PVs (Poolside, Koufuku, etc.) were far more modest than anything AKB has done and were presented in a more fun way than provocative.

Only thing way off here is the notion that Idoling would turn into AKB by going mainstream as you suggest. Your worst fears are simply unfounded in reality and not good enough reason to keep Idoling at status quo.

Whether you think One Up!!! outfit is not provocative and not sexy is simply your heavily fan-biased opinion, to most people it's clearly not conservative nor girl scout modesty at all, that's the objective perspective.

I won't deny that AKB's image is rather slutty at times, but AKB is an exception, not the norm. HP groups for the most part have been rather clean in terms of their group image (personal matters are different altogether), and so are many other idol groups from mainstream. Your whole argument that Idoling would turn into another AKB by going mainstream is utter nonsense.

[AEUGNewtype]

Instead of keep saying that Idoling doesn't have to go mainstream, I'd like to know if the fan-base even has the financial muscle to push Idoling into mainstream, that's the real question, otherwise what you are saying is just false bravado to avoid responsibility as a fan.

This makes absolutely no sense, much like basically everything you posted in this reply I'm quoting. Since the Japanese people living in Japan who can go to every event and consume everything they have to offer are the only ones that can make any difference, it is up to them to change the financial backing of the group.  I own all of the Idoling albums, half of the singles, and have a couple dozen pieces of merchandise from them as far as shirts, DVDs, etc. so I don't just sit around and download their shit all day, I do buy their releases often, but my one person (a foreigner, nonetheless) doing so doesn't make much of a difference. No one has "responsibility" as a fan, you just are a fan, you have no obligation to an idol group unless you imagine it. You're getting into delusional wota mentalities here. I'm not here to "protect" Idoling, I am a fan and I support them when I can financially and when I see it fit.

Idoling adopted AKB style promotion even more with that 5th generation voting scheme, so if you are going to accuse Morninig Musume for shady promotional tactics, you'd have to include Idoling in there even more so. What is sad is that Idoling didn't really sell that many more CDs than usual even with the voting scheme.

These schemes don't matter unless you already have a pretty substantial fanbase that buys everything you release, which Idoling really doesn't, yet H!P and AKB do, so the formula works for them, but for Idoling, they just need to get more supporters in general, not just suck more money out of the existing fans, because it doesn't work that way when you have few fans to begin with, comparatively. I think the relative non-idol-ness of Idoling is what hinders them from being accepted by lots of general idol wota because they don't try so hard to be the perfect ideal idol image, they focus more on being entertainers, and it doesn't give the wota very much fantasy to latch onto or create compared to something like AKB and H!P where the girls are pretty much all carbon copies of each other and are about as fake and generic as it gets in idol terms.  This is why I love Idoling and I'd rather seem them keep their uniqueness in the idol market than go the road that other troupes have gone, even if they're not swimming in money.

what stupid company would hire an idol group that isn't even popular?

I don't know, Calpico, Sega, Sony, Konami, and Microsoft, among a laundry list of others.  Idoling!!! has done promotions and tie-ins with all of them, and some of them multiple times.

Considering that AKB is selling CDs in the millions, I don't think the same 6% of overall profit even applies the way it would to Idoling or Morning Musume. So clearly, CD sales does matter.

This statement makes no sense at all, I'd suggest you re-state it and make your point more clear if you want it to be taken seriously.

girl scout modesty

That's what MAMORE did.

[Jenus]

This makes absolutely no sense, much like basically everything you posted in this reply I'm quoting. Since the Japanese people living in Japan who can go to every event and consume everything they have to offer are the only ones that can make any difference, it is up to them to change the financial backing of the group.  I own all of the Idoling albums, half of the singles, and have a couple dozen pieces of merchandise from them as far as shirts, DVDs, etc. so I don't just sit around and download their shit all day, I do buy their releases often, but my one person (a foreigner, nonetheless) doing so doesn't make much of a difference. No one has "responsibility" as a fan, you just are a fan, you have no obligation to an idol group unless you imagine it. You're getting into delusional wota mentalities here. I'm not here to "protect" Idoling, I am a fan and I support them when I can financially and when I see it fit.

I'm not implying that you are just talk and no walk fan, I'm just curious as to your apparent lack of consideration for the well being of the members by keep saying that Idoling doesn't need to become mainstream, it just sounds like a very selfish motive to me. The members want to be more popular so that they could get more decent and well-paying work, as a fan you should be supporting their goals, not fear the possibilities of going mainstream and convince yourself in a twisted logic that Idoling is fine the way it is now, an anonymous nobody group. Do you even know why the members are working their butt off? Remaining anonymous is not it, that much I can tell you with certainty.

If you don't want to be responsible or liable for the success of an idol group, then it would be better to not say such discouraging things like Idoling doesn't need to become mainstream, I have to tell you again that I still don't get such an mentality. If you are basing that on that nonsense AKB analogy, your whole thought process is flat out wrong, that's all I can say.

These schemes don't matter unless you already have a pretty substantial fanbase that buys everything you release, which Idoling really doesn't, yet H!P and AKB do, so the formula works for them, but for Idoling, they just need to get more supporters in general, not just suck more money out of the existing fans, because it doesn't work that way when you have few fans to begin with, comparatively. I think the relative non-idol-ness of Idoling is what hinders them from being accepted by lots of general idol wota because they don't try so hard to be the perfect ideal idol image, they focus more on being entertainers, and it doesn't give the wota very much fantasy to latch onto or create compared to something like AKB and H!P where the girls are pretty much all carbon copies of each other and are about as fake and generic as it gets in idol terms.  This is why I love Idoling and I'd rather seem them keep their uniqueness in the idol market than go the road that other troupes have gone, even if they're not swimming in money.

Wait, just before you were claiming that HP was selling less than Idoling, but now you are flip flopping and saying that HP has the fan base to employ the AKB tactics? Do you just change things to fit your argument conveniently? Technicalities aside, you are now blaming the wota crowd for not appreciating Idoling enough? Do you ever find any faults in how the management or the group operates? This blaming everything else but not your beloved Idoling for not being popular enough to go into mainstream only sounds like sour grapes to me sir.

Here's what I have identified with the 5th generation voting scheme, you blamed the wota crowd who doesn't get Idoling, I say I blame the management for pulling such a lame stunt on the current fan base, more so than the current fan-base's lack of financial power. I mean if such a tactic is not going to make the current fan-base to spend more money, than clearly the non-fans wouldn't either.

You have mentioned that Idoling needs a new source of revenue stream such as new fans, and do you suppose they can do that the way Idoling is now? I doubt it, the quality has been real questionable on all fronts, and the staff is fooling around way too much by keep employing youth with mediocre vocals, and shoving untalented members into the spotlight and sucking on Kikuchi's toes every chance they can get. It's not a coincidence that I have to be rather critical of Idoling's management here, there are a lot of room for improvement.

I simply have to disagree with your claim that HP is just a carbon copy of each other and that they are fake and generic. HP actually keeps their idols very much down to Earth form, their talk segments are rather very free-style and has tons of comedic touches to it, their once aired Hello!Morning had quite a bit of variety to it and it would be rather ignorant to dismiss HP as another AKB clone, that's just not true. Besides, whos that annoying character from HP who is forming a tag-team with Kikuchi on the variety circuit? Momochi is home-grown HP idol and she's as unconventional an idol as they come, in fact her character is even more dynamic than Kikuchi's baka character, your opinion on HP is simply wrong.

And again, I must remind you that your worst fears of Idoling going mainstream = AKB clone is totally flawed.
Is Momoiro Clover an AKB clone? No and they are mainstream, and has plenty of variety aspect to them, just ask Idoling's MC Bakarhythm, he's a big fan.

Is Perfume a slutty garbage AKB clone? No, they are very artistic and creative, their techno-vocal genre has become something of a revolution in global music scene even, whos to say Idoling can't be that rather than AKB? Hell, Idoling actually has the vocal trio of Maipuru, Rurika, and Tonchan to even surpass Perfume. You see what I mean?

I don't know, Calpico, Sega, Sony, Konami, and Microsoft, among a laundry list of others.  Idoling!!! has done promotions and tie-ins with all of them, and some of them multiple times.

Yes I'm aware of the little corporate gigs Idoling gets, and do you suppose they are hired because of popularity, or super-discount in cost?
Hewlett Packard has dumped Idoling for AKB, and AKB now does TV commercials for them, Idoling only got lousy web ads. Idoling might as well stand on the streets and hand out fliers, the quality of work they get are putrid. Even the very recent Caplico gig they got had me on high hopes only to realize that their so-called reward is doing field sales in stores, not even a TV commercial, how sad.

Considering that AKB is selling CDs in the millions, I don't think the same 6% of overall profit even applies the way it would to Idoling or Morning Musume. So clearly, CD sales does matter.

This statement makes no sense at all, I'd suggest you re-state it and make your point more clear if you want it to be taken seriously.

What is there not to understand? I'm saying CD sales matter, I can't be any more clearer than that. I also like to add that CD sales isn't just about making money, it also helps in spreading popularity, things would be radically different only if Idoling could get weekly Oricon #1 ranking just once, then people in the industry would not treat Idoling like a bunch of also-rans, that's for certain.

girl scout modesty

That's what MAMORE did.

I thought we were talking about One Up!!!

[SomethingWild]

Let's get involvedingu!!!

create compared to something like AKB and H!P where the girls are pretty much all carbon copies of each other and are about as fake and generic as it gets in idol terms.  This is why I love Idoling and I'd rather seem them keep their uniqueness in the idol market than go the road that other troupes have gone, even if they're not swimming in money.

First of all, didn't the Idoling girls openly admit they have a character as well? Every single idol does, in any group. In AB48's defense, with so many girls and TV shows you actually have more variety in terms of characters. In addition, things like the documentaries have made them more open/real than any other idol group so far.

And seriously, if you consider One Up's outfits to be anywhere NEAR a lot of the stuff that AKB has gotten away with, you're way off.

The black outfits in One Up are pretty much a copy of what NMB48 had for their debut single. To me it felt like a forced attempt at being sexy (aimed at more sales), rather than it being a single which showed of Idoling's identity as a group. Not to mention the song sounded like a weaker Flying Get. This brings me to this:

After all the money they spent promoting One Up!!! only to sell even less than the previous single clearly is not very encouraging.

I think it sold less because it was patched together like a formula: bikinis, sexy outfits, a song that sounds like a big hit, etc. In the end you are left with a product that 1. isn't very interesting 2. doesn't feel like an actual Idoling single. One of the big issues with Idoling's music is that they are followers. We haven't gotten anything new or exciting from them in a while now. While I love the show, I don't find myself listening to them that much anymore, whereas I frequently played them in the past.

(Yes, I am aware that AKB48's recent songs are quite generic as well and that a lot of them sound alike. I'm not happy with this either. I also want to keep the AKB48 comparisons to a minimum because it's gotten out of hand like three times already. Yes, I am also aware of the irony I mentioned AKB48 several times in this post, haha.) AKB48 is not the point, because I want Idoling to do well as well. They used to offer something different musically, so I want them to go back to being themselves rather than forcing/aiming at something they're not.

[Jenus]

The black outfits in One Up are pretty much a copy of what NMB48 had for their debut single. To me it felt like a forced attempt at being sexy (aimed at more sales), rather than it being a single which showed of Idoling's identity as a group. Not to mention the song sounded like a weaker Flying Get. This brings me to this:

After all the money they spent promoting One Up!!! only to sell even less than the previous single clearly is not very encouraging.

I think it sold less because it was patched together like a formula: bikinis, sexy outfits, a song that sounds like a big hit, etc. In the end you are left with a product that 1. isn't very interesting 2. doesn't feel like an actual Idoling single. One of the big issues with Idoling's music is that they are followers. We haven't gotten anything new or exciting from them in a while now. While I love the show, I don't find myself listening to them that much anymore, whereas I frequently played them in the past.

(Yes, I am aware that AKB48's recent songs are quite generic as well and that a lot of them sound alike. I'm not happy with this either. I also want to keep the AKB48 comparisons to a minimum because it's gotten out of hand like three times already. Yes, I am also aware of the irony I mentioned AKB48 several times in this post, haha.) AKB48 is not the point, because I want Idoling to do well as well. They used to offer something different musically, so I want them to go back to being themselves rather than forcing/aiming at something they're not.

Well, with the extravagant extra promotion they did for One Up!!!, I think they were going for new fans, but as you have mentioned, the content simply isn't that original to hook people in. Secondly, Idoling simply still doesn't have big enough brand-name presence to get attention with conventional marketing. People will just wonder what they had just seen or heard for that moment, and then just move on. It feels like they missed a step in the marketing, step A and C were great, but the crucial step B was missing, so the result D they were looking for never happened.

Yeah, I totally agree with you on that Idoling music has become nothing special, they don't utilize vocal talents in their music anymore, so their song sounds like generic AKB song now. I don't listen to the newer Idoling songs either.

[AEUGNewtype]

Wait, just before you were claiming that HP was selling less than Idoling, but now you are flip flopping and saying that HP has the fan base to employ the AKB tactics? Do you just change things to fit your argument conveniently? Technicalities aside, you are now blaming the wota crowd for not appreciating Idoling enough? Do you ever find any faults in how the management or the group operates? This blaming everything else but not your beloved Idoling for not being popular enough to go into mainstream only sounds like sour grapes to me sir.

I never said anything about selling "less than Idoling" I said their H!P's sales were abysmal for a while compared to what they used to do and especially compared to what other idol groups were doing at the time. Hell, some of my other favorite groups right now sell WAY less than Idoling, yet they continue to exist because of the promotions they have and fairly low budgets, and I love their output, so what do I care if they sell or not?

Also, to respond to this entire thing, I'll just add that voting for new generation members doesn't mean shit compared to why AKB usually sells so much, which is voting tickets for a huge popularity contest among ALL current members or handshake tickets, and especially when you have over 200 members to choose from, things are pretty accessible across the board.  This is a whole different ball game.  When you have many fans buying somewhere between 400-1500 copies of a single to get a bunch of voting tickets, how is that spreading popularity outside of the fan niche? It isn't. It's drawing parlor tricks media attention to it, but its not making the group look any more legitimate in the public eye.

In the case of H!P adapting similar tactics, the tickets were for handshake tickets, and it gave the fans who already bought everything a lot more incentive to buy even more multiple copies of the exact same CD, since before, all their CDs came with was all the common crap like trading cards, which is of much less value than a chance to meet the idol, and that's still not as intense as the AKB election tickets.  In essence, for the popularity contest tickets, fans believe that whoever buys the most copies of the same CD to vote for their favorite means they love their idol the most.  This is how the system works, basically exploiting the delusions of fans who are obviously too far in for their own good and will take things to EXTREME measures to "buy" the "love" of their favorite idol. Even though the idol will never know that and its all just a fantasy, it becomes a bitter rivalry among fans to support their idols which they have already supported for years and spent a virtual money pit worth of cash on in the past.

All of this is different than voting in an election of which new members will join the group.  I can see this not selling, since these kinds of new member audition voting events have typically just been a free process in the past that just garnered fan participation or is completely decided by management with no say from fans.  Dumb marketing move, absolutely.

What is there not to understand? I'm saying CD sales matter, I can't be any more clearer than that.

Yet you did not give clear reasoning or proof of why.

your opinion on HP is simply wrong.

And this is where I stop taking you seriously, entirely, and will not respond to you anymore.

First of all, didn't the Idoling girls openly admit they have a character as well? Every single idol does, in any group. In AB48's defense, with so many girls and TV shows you actually have more variety in terms of characters. In addition, things like the documentaries have made them more open/real than any other idol group so far.

Of course they have characters, all idols do, but I feel Idoling's characters are far more unconventional compared to all the dreck I see populating other idol groups today.  Watch some of the episodes of Banzuke Eight where Idoling is appearing alongside just about every other major idol group out there today and the other groups are sad, pathetic shells of entertainers.  They simply run through the motions of generic idol behavior and catch-phrases while Idoling is making rotten jokes and threatening people, etc. Maybe its personal preference, but I've seen so much of idols at this point, I'm tired of them just having the same behaviors 95% of the time, its nice to see something different.

Not to mention the song sounded like a weaker Flying Get

Haha, that's like an oxymoron.  Flying Get is trash and the songs have completely different styles.  Slightly similar instrumentation, but different song style entirely and Idoling's arrangement actually used tons of real instruments, not trash-sounding synths. Oh well, this is all personal preference and opinion, anyway!

So, I'm done with this discussion, lets get back to talking about the TV episodes like the thread says. 

[Jenus]

I never said anything about selling "less than Idoling" I said their H!P's sales were abysmal for a while compared to what they used to do and especially compared to what other idol groups were doing at the time. Hell, some of my other favorite groups right now sell WAY less than Idoling, yet they continue to exist because of the promotions they have and fairly low budgets, and I love their output, so what do I care if they sell or not?

Yes I'm now aware that you don't give a shit about the financial stability of Idoling nor the members' goals.
As far as selling CDs is concerned, it's a part of the revenue, any business needs income to operate, introduction to business operation 101.

Also, to respond to this entire thing, I'll just add that voting for new generation members doesn't mean shit compared to why AKB usually sells so much, which is voting tickets for a huge popularity contest among ALL current members or handshake tickets.  This is a whole different ball game.  When you have many fans buying somewhere between 400-1500 copies of a single to get a bunch of voting tickets, how is that spreading popularity outside of the fan niche? It isn't. It's drawing parlor tricks media attention to it, but its not making the group look any more legitimate in the public eye.

AKB sells more because of the size of the fan base, nothing else. They are both a form of popularity contest in essence, but if I had to form my objective opinion as to which voting scheme is more crucial to the group, I would say it's Idoling's 5th generation voting, because it's about selecting new members into the group which may totally change the complexion of the group itself, while AKB version is truly nothing more than a popularity contest with existing members merely staying put or changing a few spots on the ranking chart, yawn.
You may say AKB fans are just buying all that CDs and that their fan base is the same, but you have to give it to them that they are more dedicated and supportive than Idoling fans. Anyway, this isn't about how bs AKB's CD sales is, having a chance to vote for a new Idoling member does matter quite a bit, if you recall, 4th generation was also voted into the group, and because they were selected by non professionals of Idoling members, and magazine editors who only cared for the looks, the result was quite a disaster and still affecting Idoling today.

In the case of H!P adapting similar tactics, the tickets were for handshake tickets, and it gave the fans who already bought everything a lot more incentive to buy even more multiple copies of the exact same CD, since before, all their CDs came with was all the common crap like trading cards, which is of much less value than a chance to meet the idol, and that's still not as intense as the AKB election tickets.  In essence, for the popularity contest tickets, fans believe that whoever buys the most copies of the same CD to vote for their favorite means they love their idol the most.  This is how the system works, basically exploiting the delusions of fans who are obviously too far in for their own good and will take things to EXTREME measures to "buy" the "love" of their favorite idol. Even though the idol will never know that and its all just a fantasy, it becomes a bitter rivalry among fans to support their idols which they have already supported for years and spent a virtual money pit worth of cash on in the past.

I don't know why you are stating the obvious. Yes HP does sell hand-shake tickets, so does Idoling, what's your point?

All of this is different than voting in an election of which new members will join the group.  I can see this not selling, since these kinds of new member audition voting events have typically just been a free process in the past that just garnered fan participation or is completely decided by management with no say from fans.  Dumb marketing move, absolutely.

Well it's easy to dish out the blame after the fact, I don't think the voting scheme was dumb, the whole idea was to get the fans involved more just like AKB, if you haven't noticed, Idoling is following the trend of AKB marketing, it just turned out that Idoling fan base just isn't big enough to make any significant surge in sales. What really backfired among the fan base was that there was a lot of suspicion in regards to a foul-play in the voting mechanism, where fans felt that it was fixed and that Watanabe agency girls would get in no matter what, and it became true, so quite a few fans who were voting for other girls felt betrayed and stopped being Idoling fans. This is absolutely poor management, that's the real blame, not the voting scheme itself.

What is there not to understand? I'm saying CD sales matter, I can't be any more clearer than that.

Yet you did not give clear reasoning of why.

I have a couple of times, and I'm not obligated to give you any reasons when your stance doesn't even make sense.

your opinion on HP is simply wrong.

And this is where I stop taking you seriously, entirely, and will not respond to you anymore.

I guess you can't counter my detailed argument to realize how wrong you were on HP. You don't have to sound that bitter man, I just hope that you've learned from it and move on.

Of course they have characters, all idols do, but I feel Idoling's characters are far more unconventional compared to all the dreck I see populating other idol groups today.  Watch some of the episodes of Banzuke Eight where Idoling is appearing alongside just about every other idol group out there today and the other groups are sad, pathetic shells of entertainers.  They simply run through the motions of generic idol behavior and catch-phrases while Idoling is making rotten jokes and threatening people, etc. Maybe its personal preference, but I've seen so much of idols at this point, I'm tired of them just having the same behaviors 95% of the time, its nice to see something different.

I use to believe this too, but Idoling and AKBingo seem awfully the same kind of stuff to me. There isn't as much distinction as there were a few years ago, other idol groups are diving deep into variety just as much.

[cicily]

One thing I do agree with:

Musically, Idoling!!! is definitely not using all the talent they have. They don't have solo parts in their singles as much anymore, and when they do, it's pretty generic stuff that doesn't use the singing talents of the better singers in the groups. And there aren't any more harmonies like in 'eve' either.

And their choreography and PVs are pretty bland. C'mon, you have a former TRF backup dancer in the group (Ruka) for crying out loud. What would it take to give her a dance solo in a song again like what they did in 'SISTERS'? And you have at least nine members who are competent and/or trained dancers (Tonchan, Ruri, Umeko, Hiichan, Ruka, Nao, Ai, Manami, Karen) - would it kill them to put in more complex choreography than just shifting around from left to right? I saw the DANCE IDOLING!!! performance at this year's TIF. I know they can do it. Even Secret Girls songs have better choreography than Idoling!!! singles.

Sometimes it almost feels like the staff wants Idoling!!! to remain in its current niche as performers and are afraid of them breaking out as artistes...

[LarcKen]

^ Nice heads up in concern of their dance choreography, it's surprisingly lacking of discussions for it (even with the recent pages of debate  ). Didn't even crossed my mind until you mentioned it.
Though i have felt it for a long time that their choreography for the most part are indeed leaves a lot to be desired. 
And yes, musically they are mediocre at best right now. 
That said, Thankfully you won't find other idol group in the world that is so comforting and amusing to watch in their show, thanks to their amazing chemistry and splendid characters. 

[SuzukiRyo]

Performance discussion please move to general discussion thread, will ya? This thread is for episode discussion.

==

Now goes to #944

Finally they make it an episode for Asahi problem.
I also noticed Asahi's leg is different lately. I wonder why, we should ask her about it when she gets live discussion at Nico channel.

[kei_86]

944 is just awesome.

and quote of the day goes to

Which pride do you wish to protect!? Is it your pride as an Idol!? Or your pride as Idoling!!!

That's probably the most wicked choice to make  If she wins, she's a guy thus losing the pride as an idol but protects her pride as one of the idoling!!! sumo team. She loses, she's a girl thus keeping the pride as an idol but loses her place in idoling!!!

You decide your own gender! 

and those interviews just reminds me of Suu-chan life counseling series. How I miss those.

Putting Gocchan in was just brilliant 

[neonero]

So Asahi is a guy. Well still like him. Ganbare Asahi-kun !

[Jenus]

I didn't care for 944, it was just lame and overdone, I mean force-feeding that Asahi is a guy is just whatever to me. It only says that the staff is incapable of coming up with decent episodes on a consistent basis to keep relying on such obscure inside-joke material that only 30% of the fan base would appreciate and 100% of non-fans wouldn't comprehend.

And it's not even original because AKB's Takamina is accused of being a guy already.

[neonero]

@Jenus : May I ask what is the last episode you really enjoyed watching ?

[Jenus]

@Jenus : May I ask what is the last episode you really enjoyed watching ?

The one episode in particular that I find myself keep going back to watch is DJ Rukaede (#829), that episode was truly edgy and hilarious, especially to see 1st generation members put on a spot instead of looking bored and un-involved.

Idol Badminton Battle episodes also had its moments for the rare occasion of seeing other idol groups interact outside of their element on the show, and the controversy caused by Super Girls' Rino was extra sweet, almost to the point that she out-shined the badminton part in entirety, but making the battle 4 episodes long just didn't have enough steam at the end, 2 episodes would've been perfect in keeping it at the absolute edgy state throughout.

The episodes since then have been mostly re-hashing of the same stuff I've seen before which greatly reduces the fun-factor in that it's predictable and redundant, the 12 Amitalk episodes are unmemorable and doesn't even match up to one episode of DJ Rukaede. The new concept episodes since then have been either too lame or contrived to get a genuine laughter out of me.

[cicily]

The one episode in particular that I find myself keep going back to watch is DJ Rukaede (#829), that episode was truly edgy and hilarious, especially to see 1st generation members put on a spot instead of looking bored and un-involved.

That episode is yet another example of an episode where the girls got to show off their improvisational and comedic timing skills, albeit with a lot of prompting by Masuno. I love episodes like that - I think Idoling!!! should do more of those.

[SuzukiRyo]

Shit-flavored Curry or Curry-flavored Shit, which one you choose?
I'd choose  Shit-flavored Curry, because even though it taste like shit, it is still curry.

By Umeko