Learn Japanese

[Amplifier]

Leaving for Japan in 2 weeks~

In other news, I updated my dictionary app: http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ja.bito.aobajisho. I'm adding some new features now. Please check it out, and leave feedback!

[Amplifier]

Not to spam in here, but I updated my app again. This time I added example sentences. There's a preview on the store page. I actually realized there's a rather small error with it, that I need to fix, but it's largely cosmetic anyway. Please check it out, and submit that juicy feedback~

In other news, I peace out to Japan in a week

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Fuck yes I love Japan.

Class starts tomorrow. Tested into Japanese level 5 of 7 at my uni. Let's do THIS YEEEEAH

But seriously, study hard and come here.

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Had my first two Japanese classes yesterday. What the shit did I get myself into. Better to be in a harder class, than one that's too easy, I suppose.

[mashimaro]

I just installed an app on my phone called Human Japanese. I am trying my best to learn from it!

[Amplifier]

10 weeks later: Yep, still getting grilled by Japanese class. At least I get huge amounts of speaking practice.

[twissie]

^
Any tips on how to practice conversation skills or how to muster the courage to jump into conversations? I am badly out of practice with my Japanese, I still read and listen to a fair bit of Japanese to keep up with it, but I need to expand my vocab and kanji skills orz

Expanding vocab is really difficult when you don't have any vocab lists or tests to cram for D: I have started just jotting down every word I have to look up while reading, but this makes the reading experience painfully slow and it feels more like work than a hobby/reading for fun T____T; I tend to remember the words afterward, but I completely forget what it was I was reading 8Db

[jafeijai]

^ Don't know about you, but over here (Toronto), we have weekly language exchange sessions where people are seated in small groups of 4-5 with half Japanese speakers, half English speakers, and about 1.5 hours time is spent just talking in English; another 1.5 hours is spent talking in Japanese about anything the table wants to talk about.

I think the key thing is to find Japanese people and just talk to them. Chances are, they're willing to practice English, so you can help with that while they help you practice Japanese.

[Amplifier]

Just finished my exams for Japanese. Both went better than anticipated, even though they were both cumulative. I was overwhelmed by the workload here at first, but now I appreciate the pacing. And being able to speak Japanese 50% of the day has been a huge boost too. I wish I could continue classes here another semester, but I had a good base to prepare for the JLPT (N1 I hope!) this December.

[twissie]

I think I've whined about it here before, but I've taken up my self-studies again and I keep getting stuck on the same grammar point. What the shit is the deal with causative and causative-passive verb forms/sentence patterns? I guess I'm having issues understanding why you need a whole separate verb form to describe having someone force or let you do something. I rarely talk in terms of being forced/let to do anything, so I'm struggling because I feel like it's something I wouldn't use at all. Maybe it's a Norwegian thing, I don't know. Of course watching Japanese films and tv shows, I hear these sentence patterns all the time, so I obviously do realise that it's a very important grammar point that I need to be able to master, but man. It's just not sticking.

The most precise description and explanation I've seen for the two forms/patterns have been the following:
B: Aさん、してください = 1. Aがする 2. BがAにさせる 3. AがBにさせられる

I then did some listening exercises to see if I'd gotten the hang of it, and it went okay, but I struggled with the following example. Maybe some of you could help me break this apart and clarify what's going on in these two sentences?

Script:
男：顔色が悪いですよ。どうしたんですか。
女：ええ、ちょっと具合が悪いんです。明日、午前中に病院へ行ってきてもよろしいですか。
男：ええ、かまいませんよ。

Question:
Pick the correct sentence based on the conversation (script):
1. 女の人は明日男の人を病院に行かせてあげます。
2. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行かせてもらいます。
3. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行ってもらいます。

My guess was 3, "she had him take her to the hospital", but the answer key tells me that the correct answer is 2. I can not really wrap my head around the construction of causative + てもらう. "She had him make her go to the hospital"...? Is that what it says? So clunky D: I'd appreciate it if someone could dumb this down for me, I really want to understand this.

[Estrea]

Script:
男：顔色が悪いですよ。どうしたんですか。
女：ええ、ちょっと具合が悪いんです。明日、午前中に病院へ行ってきてもよろしいですか。
男：ええ、かまいませんよ。

Question:
Pick the correct sentence based on the conversation (script):
1. 女の人は明日男の人を病院に行かせてあげます。
2. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行かせてもらいます。
3. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行ってもらいます。

My guess was 3, "she had him take her to the hospital", but the answer key tells me that the correct answer is 2. I can not really wrap my head around the construction of causative + てもらう. "She had him make her go to the hospital"...? Is that what it says? So clunky D: I'd appreciate it if someone could dumb this down for me, I really want to understand this.

I'll try to explain it as I understand it as best as I can ^^;

 
1. 女の人は明日男の人を病院に行かせてあげます
She allows him to go to the hospital. In this case the あげます signifies her giving him something and  行かせて means to let him go.

2. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行かせてもらいます
She got permission from him to go to the hospital. The もらいます signifies that she is receiving something from him, in this case permission to head to the hospital.
 
3. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行ってもらいます
This one is just wrong because 行って makes no sense in the context of this sentence. If it had been 連れていってもらいます it would have made sense since in that case it would mean she had him take her to the hospital.

I hope that makes sense?

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2

[twissie]

3. 女の人は明日男の人に病院に行ってもらいます
This one is just wrong because 行って makes no sense in the context of this sentence. If it had been 連れていってもらいます it would have made sense since in that case it would mean she had him take her to the hospital.

Thanks for pointing this out, I agree that "行ってもらいます" doesn't make any sense, but it made sense to my Norwegian brain during the listening exercise. I am afraid I still have no idea what to make of causative + てもらう, though ^^;

All my textbooks always focus on causative meaning that someone makes someone do something else, they will briefly mention that it also means to let someone do something, but this is (for whatever reason) rarely used in examples (or the translations remain ambiguous).

てもらう is also always explained as being used to say that we get, persuade, or arrange for, someone to do something for us. We "receive" somebody's favour (that we have asked them to do for us). So.. basically, I feel like in this exercise, the てもらう part should be enough to describe that she got him to take her to the hospital (though 行く is obviously the wrong verb), I don't understand why you need the causative as well?

[Estrea]

^Hmm how to explain. Well, in the first place, the convo went:

Man：You don't look so good. Is something wrong?
Woman：Yes, I don't feel so well. Can I head to the hospital in the morning tomorrow?
Man：Yes, I don't mind.

That's how I would have translated it. She wanted to go to the hospital and was basically asking his permission (assuming the setting is at an office and he is her superior). To break up the component parts of the sentence would kind of go like this:

行く = to go
てもらう = to receive (permission, in this case)

The causative 行かす changes the verb "to go" to "to allow her to go", which works with the もらう to form the full phrase "received permission to allow her to go". It only makes sense in context of the script because she was asking permission to go to the hospital, and he gave her that permission, allowing her to go, so to speak. It's a bit convoluted but that's how the language works? I know I trip over causatives all the time too so this is usually an issue for me as well =_= Context is everything in Japanese though, so I guess either "being made to do something" or "being allowed to do something" is really context-dependent. orz

[twissie]

^
Well shiiiiit. I posted my last post before going to bed last night, and while brushing my teeth I started thinking "I think I messed that up, because she's actually asking to go, isn't she? I~'ll look at it in the morning" .....

so yeah.

Your initial explanation makes perfect sense now that I realise what the actual problem was. Jeez. I'm not sure why I desperately wanted the guy to have to take her anywhere. I blame all the other scripts in this exercise

Anyway, thanks! I understand why 行かせてもらいます makes sense now, but again, I feel it's something I would never ever say myself @_@;

[Amplifier]

Everyday studying that kanji and shit. I've been using the 日本語総まとめ series, and it's pretty swell.

Anyway, is anyone else going to the Career Forum events in Boston / LA? I'm planning to go to Boston this year. http://www.careerforum.net/?lang=E

[Amplifier]

Kanji everyday.

Textbooks and dictionaries are starting to driving me insane, with their lazy information regarding meaning and usage of words. Like, holy shit 日本語総まとめ, can you fucking tell me if a word can also take する? Sweet merciful baby jesus. Dictionaries using edict information aren't much better, with their nebulous and outright useless meanings.

December JLPT registration is almost here. N2 anyone?

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JLPT in a week. Anyone else taking it? N2 here, feeling good about it.

[etranger01]

1. get urself:
"a Kodansha Dictionary - a dictionary of japanese particles" by Sue A. Kawashima
published by Kodansha

2. make a textfile with the japanese reading of your fave H!P tracks & translate it

3. every particle in that lyrics text u fall over > write that particle at the bottom of the text file and copy the rules for the particle from that book.

4. learn words, kanji and the correct (and complicated^^) use of the particles by repeating .....always watch the particles rules!

i have bout 100 books about learning japanese, and THIS is on of the most valuable ones! buying strongly recommended!

[etranger01]

^
here, this is the book i was talking about.
recieved some good reviews.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1681945.A_Dictionary_of_Japanese_Particles

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Released a new version of my Android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ja.bito.aobaapp