Author Topic: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread  (Read 135845 times)

Loser87

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2008, 11:53:44 PM »
........

I'm part of the 'golden age' all shiny and holy LMAO

XDDXDD

Sorry just thought it'd be funny to say haha

Offline Yuuyami

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2008, 12:23:02 AM »
so that means I'm 7th too? cool!

I was wondering if we were going to have a discussion for fics..got a question: wonder what does make a good fic? I've been trying to make it right for mine, but no avail sometimes..any ideas?



Since it's you, I'll answer according to you. :3

Well, the first step in writing is to consider your audience. Are you sure you should be writing hetero fics here? xD. No offense, but as you saw in the past, such fics don't do well in an area populated by fans who prefer idol on idol xD.

Number two, your fiction feels rather... empty. I see your characters, I see them interact with others, but that's it. I don't really have a sense of your characters' mindsets nor do I feel anything in particular to them. I have a similar problem in writing, so I'm going to tell you what Essy-chan suggested to me. In writing fiction, you have to make sure that you convey your characters and their feelings perfectly. The thing about guys and their writing is that they tend to convey messages through the actions that the character takes instead of simply thinking about it. What I recommend for you is to consider why your character is doing this and why they feel that they should do what they do. Of course, I'm not asking you to write "she did this because she wanted that" but every single word you write should contribute to that feeling.

Number three is just something out of my pickyness, but I like reading chapters that are long and involving xD. With you, it seems that you want to try and portray something but then you feel "this is good enough," and leave it as it is. A lot of what I see is "This happens. That happens." You can't manipulate your reader's head with just that. You need vivid imageries, whether it is how a character feels or the environment around them. You can't go far with writing if there's nothing aesthetically pleasing.

But yeah, a helpful tip to cover those would be to mold your diction and syntax with love. Make sure every word counts towards the meaning of what you want to convey. Does what I write make ME feel like that? that sort of mindset. Even if it's for the sake of saying something simple, there really is a certain aesthetic appeal if you word it correctly.

Hmm xD; I should be taking my own advice too... I also still have yet to learn how to mold characters efficiently in my stories xD. A good study is to look at writers and stories like OTN1's Lovex2 series and most of Estrea's sandbox stuff, their forte in writing is characterization and 3-dimensional-character writing.

But yeah, to answer your question about what makes a good fic.

It's an opinion thing, so I'm answering according to myself.

To me, a good fic is one that can submerge a reader into its words. I want to be able to experience everything the main character feels. I want to be able to put myself into the character's shoes. I want to be able to feel just as sad as the character.

I just want to be moved.

It's the main reason why I tend to gravitate towards angsty stories a lot, especially if it's a character in an internal conflict. xDDDD
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 12:26:31 AM by Yuuyami »

Offline strawb3rrykream

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2008, 01:28:54 AM »
Wow, I missed a lot! :lol: Anyway, I'm 7th gen, huh? Guess it could be worse. I really enjoy writing so I'm glad to be here. I think I'll have to do some research to become better. And it really is nice to see many veteran writers back here! But c'mon 7th gen, let's bring it! :heart:
And btw, to any senpai, what do you guys think of my fics? I'd like to improve so please help me! :D

Offline tru_harmony

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2008, 02:06:01 AM »
i think many kouhai writers now will be asking for advice from the senpais... as i have said in my earlier posts in my fic thread, constructive criticism is always welcome... if they are bleeding-bad, pm would be a good medium... i think all of us newbs want to be as good as the classic and established fic writers here to carry on until and after the 8th generation emerges...

there are already some who have given me advice that i actually attempt to apply on my fic... but i want to get more perspectives so that i can improve on all dimensions of my fic...

thanks...

Offline tito

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2008, 02:20:32 AM »
Wow..this thread is going fast :D ^I feel the same way as tru_harmony and I really hope that I can improve on my writing as time goes by..it will be nice if senpai writers can give me advice :)

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Offline JFC

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2008, 06:53:31 AM »
-tries to sneak away before anyone asks about AA-
Hey Es-

...


...


...

damn. :(


I've actually been on a bit of a break from the fics. I have this nasty habit of needing "completion" when I start reading one (strange, I know) and it's honestly been tiring me out.  Still trying to get at least a couple of them read per day, though I'm procrastinating with the longer/more prolific ones. Luckily school's almost out so I'll hopefully have a bit more time to spare during the day to catch up.

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Offline poets

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2008, 07:06:34 AM »
I've actually been on a bit of a break from the fics. I have this nasty habit of needing "completion" when I start reading one (strange, I know) and it's honestly been tiring me out.  Still trying to get at least a couple of them read per day, though I'm procrastinating with the longer/more prolific ones. Luckily school's almost out so I'll hopefully have a bit more time to spare during the day to catch up.

Yeah, I've noticed... but GANBARE JFC <3
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Offline Estrea

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2008, 07:59:39 AM »
^Lol JFC. :P Sorry...

Meh I don't read enough to be able to objectively comment...and in any case I'm prejudiced. XD Like I mentioned before, I only really follow Rokun's stories, even if I fail to comment (hey I can just tell him directly on AIM xD).

But Yuuyami's extremely long post pretty much summarizes most of what I have to say, probably because that's part of what I've been scolding her about and teaching her for. XDD

I'll like to add on to the general tips though, about details and characterization. Not really specifically aimed at anyone, just a general guide on what I think is important.



The devil's in the details. Seriously. From what little I've skimmed over in some of the newer stories, there is some good description but there's no real detail. It's like watching TV and everything's in black and white. Well, not quite, but you get the analogy. The girls just DO things, and their feelings are like something out of a comic book *BOOM*, *BANG*, *ANGST*. It feels very shallow, and I can't connect to the characters. Maybe it's just me, but I can't sympathize with them. It's like their cardboard cutouts bearing the names of the girls, and that just isn't right somehow, to me. They're actually real people that we borrow in our stories, so we should at least try to treat them like real people, not just little figurines that we move across our Lego-brick universe. *endrant* :P

Take heart though, that's where most of us start. AA has that exact same problem at times, but then again I was aiming for light-hearted comedy (although my dramatic angsty side kicked in again...). It's a matter of respecting your characters, fictional or not. Writing can be as precise as a science and as elegant as an art. Storytelling and storywriting are almost two entirely different things, since TELLING a story requires different parameters given that you can modulate your voice and have gestures to add to the effect, so the words used can be different. WRITING a story though, lacks that visual aspect, but it does give you more flexibility in choosing what to show and what not to...it allows for more detail, but it is also more difficult in that you have to recreate the visual and audio effects...in words.

And it's not just a matter of just putting "she felt this" or "she did that" or even just "something exploded". Build up is very important. Things don't usually just happen on the spot, even if from the character's perspective it feels very sudden. The writer should knows what leads up before, and depending on the story, allow the readers to see it too (unless its necessary to keep it from them for plot purposes).

Remember, the writer is basically God in our own little story universe, since we have the ultimate power there to write or not to write certain things in. But (forgive the cliche :P) with great power comes great responsibility. You have the power to write, but write well, or at least try to. It's a constant learning process that I'm working on as well, since perfection is a progressive concept. XD

Another factor I would like to mention (since I've been scolding Yuuyami about that for AGES), is movement. What movement, you might think? Movement as in the camera view...I know this isn't a movie or a video, but bear with my analogy. xD

Haven't you noticed how when you choose to focus on certain characters doing certain things and follow them around, it's a great deal like having a camera view of what happens? You can choose to focus on certain details, or purposely leave things out of the scene. You can zoom in on an expression, or zoom out for peripheral details. You can choose to film at different angles for different effects.

With that in mind, a camera view is, necessarily, not static. Unless it's for effect (I can think of some examples), but generally the camera view moves with the character (or not, depending on your focus), and there is a CONTINUITY in movement. Don't underestimate how these little details add to the feel of the story. Little things like following the fluttering of hair or a subtle flick of the wrist add color to the landscape, but it must be judiciously chosen, to suit what you want to emphasize about the character or scenery. It draws people into the story, by giving them a detailed imagery of what is happening.

Naturally, not everyone likes this style because it can be TOO involved, that much I'll admit. It's possible to be overloaded with details, so it takes practice and experience to learn how much is just right.

The thing is a lot of the newer writers have great ideas, excellent ideas, really, but the execution lets them down. It's one thing to have a good idea, it's another thing to convey it in a manner that shows how great it really is. But that takes practice, since no one gets good overnight. It took me years to even come close to scraping the underside of "good".

But it helps if people point out what's wrong though. I learned that lesson the hard way 4 years ago, on another forum, when I was still a noob writer. I was scolded to the point of tears, and swore never to write again...a promise I followed for two years before I was drawn back to the writing world by anime again. But high school had improved my writing skills, so it wasn't as bad this time...but it still took time.

Well that's just sharing my perspective. If anyone wants to talk to me, there's always IM. I tend to ignore my PMs a lot, so that isn't the best way to communicate with me. Lol. Don't be intimidated, I don't get scary until I get to know you better...oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that?

XDDDD

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
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Offline JFC

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2008, 08:01:36 AM »
The real funny thing is that I've got more posts in this part of JPH!P alone than some ('kay, who am I kidding...a LOT) of the authors here have in the ENTIRE forum. :lol:

Just go into my profile and look at my "general stats". :lol:

JPH!P :heart:'s Fushigidane, ChrNo, Jab & marimari. Always.

Offline poets

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2008, 09:12:37 AM »
This is my issue with the "fine arts"(singing, dancing, writing, painting ect)... you get inspired at the oddest times and end up staying up late cause you NEEEEEEED to finish what you started earlier, if not... you just won't be able to live with yourself. Even though you'll hate yourself when you wake up cause you only had 4 hours of sleep and NOW you have to work for 8 hours straight  :'(. Oh bitter sweet inspiration >.<


GOOD NIGHT (though I'm sure I should say "good morning" to a few of you right now  :lol:)
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Offline OTN1

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2008, 10:57:21 AM »
Haha, here I am after months of silence... reading this thread...

I would not consider myself a "1st gen" writer in terms of when I posted my first stories, but I guess from a different perspective, I could fit in there somewhere.  It was interesting to see everything broken down like that.  Makes this part of the forum so much more H!P-ish and exciting. :lol:

And yeah, poets.  I agree that the fine arts bite you in the butt at the most inconvenient of times.

Offline lollipopgirl

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2008, 02:16:36 PM »
Granted I'm no writer, like Yuuyami and Estrea, but I am an avid reading and I'd like to add some things to what they said about fic writing, from a readers perspective.

Characterisation: In my opinion, yes the H!P characters are all real people, but we don't actually know these girls, thus characterisation itself is more an interpretation of how the writer views them... There shouldn't be a right or wrong to the way the characters are presented, provided it's consistent throughout the fic (unless there is detailed personal growth blah blah)... Sure, maybe making Gaki a hard core yankii is a bit strange, but justify it in your writing by making the character of Gaki a complete disciple of Yuko and good going!

Y & E (sorry guys, laziness) give amazing advice, of course, they are brilliant writers, but not all fanfic writers need to be as good as them to feel 'proud' of one's work... Writing at this level isn't always writing to please other people, you don't need to cater to everyone's preferences (unless it's mine, then you do :P ). Everyone wants to write the perfect story *cough* AA *cough*, but before you get there, writing for yourself and sharing it with others even if it's not what they generally like, is fine... Of course, take everything you can from their advice, but don't feel disheartened if you don't think you can do what they suggest just yet... If the author writes for pleasure and not as a chore, that comes across a lot in the writing to the reader... If you enjoy it and are able to put a part of yourself in the fic (pleeeeease not as a character, lol), chances are at least one other person will be able to feel it the way you do.

Not all fics need to be epic, don't feel forced to make it so each time... You can write brilliant fics with amazing detail and great consistent characterisation without making them something hugely epic. If you put emotion in your fic, whether it be intense angst, pure lovey fluff, or anywhere in between, and you can feel it as you're writing it, then so will your readers!

For the most part I think i just repeated what the others said but a bit more simplistically, and sure I'm not a credible person around these parts look those two, but I do know how i like to read a fic and how it gets to me as a reader... Everything is up for interpretation and personal opinion, not everyone will like every fic, even ones that are hugely popular, so be proud of you work and allow yourself to develop at a steady pass while challenging yourself as you go.

Yep, rant over!
Just wanted to add something coz, no offence Y & E, if I was a writer (as a 'newbie' by your terms), right now I'd feel extremely appreciative of your advice, but also a bit overwhelmed, nervous, worried and intimidated. I know I can't, and won't try to, match the amazing points you can give, but yeah, just wanted to give them a little confidence boost amongst everything... You guys are smart, i hope you can understand what I mean and don't think I'm attacking you... I love the writing of both of you and probably should comment more on what you do write but you kinda put me at a loss for words, making it slightly difficult ;)

:heart: :wub: Love & Peace all :heart: :wub:
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 02:21:45 PM by lollipopgirl »

Offline Estrea

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2008, 02:57:55 PM »
Characterisation: In my opinion, yes the H!P characters are all real people, but we don't actually know these girls, thus characterisation itself is more an interpretation of how the writer views them... There shouldn't be a right or wrong to the way the characters are presented, provided it's consistent throughout the fic (unless there is detailed personal growth blah blah)... Sure, maybe making Gaki a hard core yankii is a bit strange, but justify it in your writing by making the character of Gaki a complete disciple of Yuko and good going!

This is an assessment I definitely agree with. The problem though, isn't just that we're free to interpret them as we want because we can't REALLY know them, but that most of the time a lot of people don't really explain why the girls they write are the way they are. I like creative interpretations, and interesting character quirks are always fun, but as you pointed out, justification is necessary, and I just don't see that sometimes.

Y & E (sorry guys, laziness) give amazing advice, of course, they are brilliant writers, but not all fanfic writers need to be as good as them to feel 'proud' of one's work... Writing at this level isn't always writing to please other people, you don't need to cater to everyone's preferences (unless it's mine, then you do :P ).

Thanks for the compliment, but I never said that everyone can't be proud of their work even if it isn't the best. I know it's difficult to write something that's always awesome, and we should always be proud of our work as long as we have done our best. That's where everyone should start off, being proud of what you do and striving to make it the best you can make it. The challenge isn't against OTHER people, it's against yourself. :P Oh and I definitely agree with the idea of writing for your own pleasure, and not to cater to your entire audience, since there's no real way to please everyone. You have to like what you do, after all. XD

Everyone wants to write the perfect story *cough* AA *cough*

Thanks, although AA is far from being perfect. Not even close. Haha. Then again I set high personal standards, so yeah. :P

Of course, take everything you can from their advice, but don't feel disheartened if you don't think you can do what they suggest just yet... If the author writes for pleasure and not as a chore, that comes across a lot in the writing to the reader... If you enjoy it and are able to put a part of yourself in the fic (pleeeeease not as a character, lol), chances are at least one other person will be able to feel it the way you do.

Well said. There's no instant route to success. We all learn at our own pace what works for us. My "advice" was never meant to be the be all and end all of things, it's just how I personally work, and if it's useful, I'm glad. But it's best to find what suits your own style. All writers should have their own personal "voice" in their writing, and I agree that taking joy in your work shows through in the writing. All I wish is that people care for their stories and their characters, because that's what makes all the difference. Readers can feel the sincerity. ^_^


Ok, well, I didn't expect to reply so much. o_o Ok. XD I should be writing...>_>;;

永遠に咲き続ける花なんていない、すべてはいずれ枯れて朽ち果てしまう。

Currently writing:
- Lilium-related things. God save my soul.

On Hold:
- Everything Else. Too many to list.

I'm also on AO3!
http://archiveofourown.org/users/Estrea

Offline poets

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2008, 06:56:03 PM »
@lollipopgirl: *starts a slow clap for her* that was an awesome and thoughtful post.

@Estrea: Dude... there is a MAJOR flaw in AA..... it's not finished  :P *hides*
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Offline JFC

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2008, 11:13:10 PM »
@Estrea: Dude... there is a MAJOR flaw in AA..... it's not finished  :P *hides*
True dat. :lol:

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Offline strawb3rrykream

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2008, 11:38:29 PM »
Wow, this thread is booming. I will definitely read those super-long posts and take the tips....eventually. I'm not really up to reading it all but I'll definitely try and use some of the tips before writing my next short.
I've realized that I only write shorts and one-shots because I get bored. I can't bring myself to write anything that is longer than 4 parts. Trust me, I've tried and the result is horredous. I just get so lazy and the chapters get progressively worse. Eventually, I wanna be able to write a decent, actual story. But for now, I think I'll stick with what I know.

Offline rokun

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2008, 12:44:52 AM »
*glares at Yuu and Essy-chan*
You just had to drag me into all of this. :P II just want to say I had nothing to do with this "categorizing" of generations since I don't really like doing things like that :P *shoves all the times he did things like that stealthily under the rug*
t's nice to see some people like OTN coming around and commenting (you better come around here more after this summer. You know what I mean :P), but missing people like Mikan, Freya or Tikitty too. Oh well, not like everyone is going to follow like some do. ;) I had to *cough* be shown the way to this place myself even.

For me, the fanfic interest started over at JPM when jphip was still just known as "JPMXXX" XD. Commie's 4th Station there was the first really active place I saw that dealt with it. Jphip's fanfic section was just starting up around that time, but not much at all was going on, and several of the early writers from JPM (myself not really included since I migrated at a later date) made up a large part of who started things off here. I eventually came around, and as Yuu so eloquently put it, around 4th generation or so things really started picking up around here and it became the place for H!P fanfics (as far as I'm concerned). Masa and Daigong will remember me from those days as the crazy guy who posted all these long-ass stories but took forever to get eligible to enter things like the perv and asshole. :P

Speaking of which, I don't really emerge out of the fanfic forum either, and even then I'm bad at reading others' stories (gomen minna >_<). I've mostly kept up with the traditional writers I know and love such as wordsworth, Loser, hammy, Rei... and Yuu (though she has to twist my arm a lot of the time :lol:). Some of the things people have said here intrigue me though, and I might venture out to see what else goes on. I'm going to be flying to Japan in August though for a year of study abroad, so it might be tough keeping up with things... (just look at what happened to Commie did the same *rolls eyes* :D)

And for all my scolding at first, I blush at people like Essy and Yuu talking about me (and I don't know what to make about Essy saying she mainly just keeps up with my stuff :oops:). I really began writing just because I enjoy it and can't wait myself to see what happens to the characters... If anyone else happens to enjoy it too, that's just a bonus, but I don't expect anyone to. I'm surprised anyone does actually. :lol: That's why I almost always end my little prelude before a chapter with "Please enjoy" or what has recently become just "Enjoy~". XD Even though I write it for myself, if anyone's going through the hard work of reading through it I feel bad if it's not enjoyable for them.

Well, I normally like to be of few words for the most part, so for now I think I'll just leave it as that. :) Ganbare all of you... er... newbies...~

Oh, I also wanted to comment on one of the pairings (just the one, for now XD). Kameshige was all the crazy when I began writing... hence how it snuck its way to some lesser extent into my Curse of the Dragons. XD From what I remember of the time, I believe it was a grand conspiracy between Commie and DoMeDoMe (who I'm not sure if posted much here, but it was mostly due to her insurmountable Eririn :heart:), with maybe a bit of a sprinkling of Vikitty from Morning Battle. They were very influential at the time (early 2005, or I guess what, 1st gen or pre-1st gen here? XD), although I'm of the belief they mostly (the Commander especially) thought of it as a joke and a take on young, fluffy teenage romance since that's how they both were at the time. XD Sayu was the cuteness and Eri was... well, the randomness from outer space? :) You can maybe think of them kind of how Berryz or C-ute couples can be today. Although, Berryz at least seems to be more angsty than anything... (I blame Loser-chan for that :P :heart:)

Anyway, carry on. That's really enough about that this time. :)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:31:13 AM by rokun »

Offline Sukoshi

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2008, 02:40:50 AM »
Ah Rokun's post made me take a walk down memory lane....Kameshige really was all the rage back then...I think that's how I got sucked into reading h!p fanfics in the first place..of course I started off with Morning Battle like a lot of people but Everything's Really Insane was and still is my all time favourite story.  I think I bugged DoMeDoMe to post it over here once when she was reposting Milestone.  Sends some Eririn waves over to DoMeDoMe~

I wonder how many pairing eras have we been through now...

Ishiyoshi --> Kameshige --> AyaMiki --> ReinaMaki --> TakaGaki ?  (hmm...I think that's the order anyways...)

Offline poets

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2008, 03:36:39 AM »
^ Yomiki was huge for a bit as well... takagaki's consistently strong but i'm seeing RenAi all OVER the place lately XD ^^;
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Offline lollipopgirl

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Re: Fanfics Review / General Discussion Thread ("NEW!")
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2008, 04:46:00 AM »
^ Stupid Ai and her Reina fangirling :angry: :P