When did/will Morning Musume die to you?

[jackal2000]

I was a fan starting at 6th generation and also not a huge Reina fan. Once Sayumi leaves, I won't have any attachment to any of the members.

How about you guys? Which graduation changed MM for you or are you a diehard fan no matter who the members are?

[shirenuファクトリー]

What a cheerful topic

Morning Musume will never die for me.

How could it? They are all so lovely and the songs are so catchy.

[daigong]

It's all about the vision, the Brand Morning Musume - to persevere despite all odds to be an idol group in the music industry. From selling 50,000 copies of their single to being not having "idol" type looks.

I don't care who the members are, they all work hard.

[MaxMcKay]

Honestly I really thought they died at the funer- I mean EriJinLin grad
(the grad was really solemn, funeral-like: especially Tomo, Namidacchi, Risa's & Aichan's words to the graduates in the grad segment)

However now it seems more like Morning Musume had only been a dormant giant who's just awakening with Riho, Fukuchan, IshiAyu (aka Keichan II ), Haruka, OneTwoThree, Fukuchan, Haruka, & of course Rihoriho

[JFC]

Even if the group disbands at some point in the future, as long as fans continue to exist somewhere, as long as their songs continue to get played and listened to somewhere, as long as someone can still look at a picture of the group and/or one of the members (be it current or former) and go "Oh, Morning Musume", then it will NEVER die.

END THREAD.

[MinnesotaWota]

I dont know how you could think that Momusu has or will die?!  They have so many new and young talents that are only beginning to become what the past greats of Momusu were.  I dont think they will ever die.  I agree that as long as people enjoy there music and adore the members they can never die.  But if you want to know which members graduation drastically changed my opinion of the group, it would have to be Takahashi Ai.  She was the biggest stand out to me for years.  Her voice, dancing and just sheer beauty captivated me from the first moment I saw here and Momusu perform.  And since her graduation its been kind of a new experience having to learn so many new members and seeing new faces in the lead role.  I also think Niigaki Risa's voice and presence will be missed greatly because of her many years of experience and strong vocals as well.  But Momusu will never die if you ask me.

[Slack]

Sometimes I wish I could give negative thanks on this forum.
But instead of just bellyaching about it, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to voice my opinion on the subject.
I've actually been thinking quite a bit about it lately.

Simply put, if you think Morning Musume is dying, then you aren't trying hard enough to get to know the members.
The way I see it, the only reason for an old fan not to love the current Morning Musume is lack of personal effort.

What you may not remember is that as a new fan, you started out not knowing who anyone was, without having any attachment to any of the members.
That meant you got to experience the joy of learning new things about the girls every time you saw them.
In my opinion, being able to feel like a new fan years later is a huge part of what makes Morning Musume great.
As I see the new girls grow and learn more about them, it's like falling in love with the group all over again!
The last couple years has been an exciting time to be a fan, much more so than the several years before that.

Being as objective as I can, the current Morning Musume is just as good, and in many ways better than it was before.
Even if you don't think so, you still have to admit that every day the younger girls are improving and if they aren't as good now, they're getting there.
If you haven't come to the same conclusion, I can only believe that it's because you aren't getting the same information I am.

So really, it seems to me that the only way people can believe that Morning Musume is dead or dying is a lack of information.
In many ways, there's more information out there now than before, so you only have yourself to blame for not finding it.
There is no reason not to be excited for how Morning Musume is developing.
What the group represents, the pride of the members of being a member of Morning Musume, all of that is constant.

It's not Morning Musume that's changed.
It's you.

[MaxMcKay]

The resentment has more to do with graduations than newbie additions, since Konkon, hell even Sayu, Junjun & Koha were able to grow & improve in Morning Musume

But for somebody who become Morning Musume fans via liking certain member(s) & management graduates her/them,
that fan thinks "Now without her/them, how is Morning Musume gonna sing & perform the product as good as before the grad?"
Which leads to that fan becoming too impatient to wait for the shinmems to improve, hence declaring later gens "sub-par"

But lets admit it, MoMusu has been having a downtime for years, despite overseas concert tours & Shōganai Yume Oibito's 1st week Oricon's #1
AKB48 have succeeded them to J-Entertainment supremacy
Even Japanese televised media openly state their preference to Dream MoMusu over the current younger lineup

Still, as I previously posted, our dormant giant is re-awakening. OneTwoThree was unveiled & lapped up at Girls Award, & I dare even say graduating leader Risa can ease her mind at peace, knowing there's promising hope in Riho, Mizuki, Ayu, Kanon, & Haruka.

[shirenuファクトリー]

Yes, it is important to make a separation between fans of Morning Musume VS. fans of an individual member. The latter never truly care about the group, and tbh I often ignore the opinions of these types of fans (because their opinions all revolve around the benefit of their favourite member, not the group as a whole).

For example, years ago there used to be a Yossi fan at this forum who deeply despised Aichan, probably blamed her for every second that Yossi wasn't in the spotlight. That kind of fan? Is not a Morning Musume fan.

As for Momusu's popularity in Japan, there are two important concepts to take into account:

1) Popular culture

2) Nostalgia

I should probably deal with nostalgia first because it's easier. Have you ever heard anyone say "the music/movies in the 90s were so much better!" That's what it's about, and all that it's about. Music or movies weren't' actually better in the 90s; it's just that people only remember the good ones. Thus, nostalgia for "the good old days". It's even worse because most of the regular variety faces on Japanese TV have been around for 10 or more years - the comedians and commentators that you see on every fucking show. They carry around the nostalgic memories: "when *I* was younger, Morning Musume did this and that" or "I remember when 10 years ago Morning Musume did this". It's a problem with having a group that's been around for so long, but shuffles members instead of keeping the old ones. Of course they say they prefer Dream MoMusu. Almost every single one of us who was a teenager in the late 90s would say that Backstreet Boys, N Sync etc. were a billion times better than One Direction is (they are a new boyband for those who don't know). People look at the past through rainbow tinted glasses and everything looks awesome, when in reality... It wasn't really better. It's just familiar.

And then there's the popular culture. People LOVE to bring up the fact that Momusu isn't selling like it used to, and LOVE to ignore the fact that for such an old concept they are actually doing pretty damn well. They also love to mention that AKB has surpassed them in popularity. But you know what, if it wasn't AKB, it would be something else. That's how popular culture works. You get a bit of time at the top and then you either fade away or manage to keep a stable, financially beneficial fanbase like Momusu has. Another group or concept will come around and take the #1 spot. That is popular culture. AKB won't be on top forever, either. I wish MM fans would just realize and accept this but year after year it's the same conversation. They are not #1 in Japan. But what the FUCK does that matter if they are #1 in your heart? And isn't H!P still #2 after AKB? Even if they were #5 that would still be good. I don't get it.

TL;DR People are silly and have unrealistic expectations

[Ulutraman]

When did/will Morning Musume die to you?

memories dont die. especially precious, extremely fun memories.
i still watch the golden days of hello morning, utaban etc almost weekly and smile at the same parts i used to years ago
true, kame's graduation was a warning bell, a reminder that "you can never go back"
same goes for recent gaki's and aika's graduation, my 2 most favorite in mm
still, the magic is strong, at least for me
partly, its a loyalty thing, i d feel like a traitor if i stoped caring, watching the shows or following up on the news
but the biggest part is the fun they bring, the crazy stunts on shows, the spontaneity of their youthfull nature
nakai make ishibashi proud, feature them always and forever
 

[MaxMcKay]

shirenu mod-san, blame MM for having that glorious success in the 1st place!
With great glory comes unrealistic expectations

And MM's rise was on surpassing predecessors MAX & SPEED

Now for those about to rebutt shirenu's how "MM no longer on top as popular culture works" with "But what about SMAP?"
Youth is highly prized in FEMALE J-idoruism, where 14 year old Riho is prized over 31 year old Nacchi
Sadly, female J-Idols don't age like wine/cognac like how Takuya & Nakai do

[Slack]

What's important to remember here is that personal feelings of disenchantment do not necessarily reflect reality.
This is especially true when you start making negative judgments without seeing the whole picture.

Personally, I think Morning Musume is more likely to go the way of Takarazuka than die out.
Almost 100 years after it started, Takarazuka is still admired by girls who want to grow up to be members. (see Takahashi Ai)
And while it's nowhere near as popular as it was decades ago, I hardly think you could call it "dead".

Even though Morning Musume is nowhere near that old, still being relevant after 14 years is no small feat!
Just like with Takarazuka, Morning Musume has young fans being made every day.
While that might not be enough to top the charts, it's definitely enough to have continued success.

So if you feel they're dead or are dying, too frickin' bad.
That just isn't the case.

[winner]

Corrected. "When did/will your Morning Musume fandom die?"
Instead of making a discussion on fan feelings on the changes in Momusu, jackal2000 has instead made a discussion on fan behavior.

Even referencing other groups like SPEED and AKB. Or less popular groups like MAX or Idoling!!! or Dream or Folder 5 or MomoClo or the other 500 idol groups out there right now. When do you think the group is dead?
Like Shirenu says, it's a trend. Popularity can be measured by how many guys like the group, and how many girls want to be like the group members.
Groups can disband, can become unpopular, can become something you don't care about anymore. But the music doesn't die. Momusu songs are mainly really uplifting, and you can just try listening to an old one to remember why you liked them in the first place.

One thing that Momusu has done really bad (in my opinion) is media. They have one main tv show. Little participation in movies or dramas.
But they've struck gold in these 2 years. Buono getting in a few movies. Manoeri really getting some movie exposure.
And Suugaku Joshi Gakuen is basically what I've been waiting for for years. Even though H!P sticks to some kinda formula for MVs and stuff, its like they're starting to actually do stuff.
On the other hand. Compared to other groups, the number of graduated Momusu members going on to do more stuff in showbiz is surprisingly high.
Basically all idol groups have this as a target. To train in different areas of the entertainment business and then go on.

Back to the current group. There's only 2 older members. And it's pretty easy to see how much they've grown. Even their weaknesses have become their strengths now (Sayu and her damn voice is actually good now).
And the load of new members. Course they aren't perfect yet, but it's easy to some that stand out and some showing real potential in areas. Fuku-chan can just look cute, that's a skill. It's fresh blood. It's what H!P fans have been wanting for years.
Their current music is also getting pretty nice, with the dance tunes.

I probably just ranted a lot on stuff I've always wanted to say. A real mess of random words, and nothing relating to the subject.
But it's good to see a Momusu that is all young and energetic. And it's pretty exciting waiting on what they'll be up to next!

[jackal2000]

Thanks for all the replies. I never realized I was a fan of each member, not the group.

It's not Morning Musume that's changed.
It's you.

Maybe I'm just getting old. I think of it in terms of Pokemon or Power Rangers or Saved By The Bell where the originals were fine the way they were. I've accepted that 151 pokemon weren't enough, the original 6 power rangers had to graduate from Angel Grove and that the Bayside Tiger kids went to college... but not my 2008-2011 Morning Musume girls... I'm not ready to see them go yet and I guess I just wanted to hang onto that team a little bit longer... =(

[MaxMcKay]

jackal2000, you're not alone

I'm the same way with brit sitcom Allo Allo:
Roger Kitter wasn't as good as Bertorelli as Gavin Richards, Derek Royle & Robin Parkinson weren't as good as LeClerc as Jack Haig, David Janson wasn't as good as Herr Flick as Richard Gibson etc

But try asking a Man United fan why they still continue support when there''s no more Cantona, Van Der Sar, Cristiano, Van Nistelrooy...you get a  face in return
I believe that's what shirenu-san, daigong-san, JFC, MNWota, Slack, & Ulutraman are getting at, just as the MUFC fan believes it's still the same MUFC, they believe it's still the same MoMusume.

[Chibs]

It aint the same Morning Musume, it could never be the same morning musume, however it is morning musume.  A new beast that is built upon the old one.