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Author Topic: Rivalry  (Read 7127 times)

Offline daigong

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Rivalry
« on: April 26, 2005, 11:23:52 PM »
From Morning Musume x Tsunku 2, Rika mentions how thing have changed esp. the sense of rivalry is non existent in today's Morning Musume

Quote from: Fenrir13

Rika: When I entered Morning Musume, everybody had rival feelings flaring up. That’s why I said, it’s not the relationship was bad, but it was these rival feelings burning that we were greatly feeling. Even when we were all eating dinner, those feelings will still flow.

...

The most different Morning Musume of now hasn’t fully sensed the “friend” feeling. The senior members have a complete sense of being very professional. We also had that feeling of being nervous from the very beginning. If I think about that, the atmosphere right now has completely changed. Therefore, in a better meaning, if everybody has a little more rivalry feeling, I think Morning Musume will power up even more.


What do you think? I think Rika is on the money. There isn't that competitive edge in the Morning Musume of now, no one is trying to out hustle the other. Everyone is just content in going through the motions, acting together in harmony. In the first Morning Musume x Tsunku , their manager told 4th Generation that they would have to catch up or even surpass the senior members. From what tama-chan has told me, other senior members have expressed the same feeling as well. :shock:

Offline Redturtle

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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 12:14:38 AM »
From the translation I read from mm-bbs by Mink, Miki said exactly the same thing (now I really want to read Yossi's part.... why isn't my book shipping?!?!?). Gorokkies (with exception of Takahashi, and maybe Tanaka) simply don't have the urge to compete with their senpais. I think the overall passive personalities of 5th gen made such rivalry atmosphere impossible to continue. Of coz I'm generalizing and to hell do I know what UFW had in mind, but this is the impression they gave to the general audience through talks, concerts, articles and whatnots.

From other reports I've read, the older members basically owned the concerts, especially MC parts. They are also the ones who heated up the atmosphere. Damn, Gorokkies need to speak up. 6th gen is doing better than 5th in this respect though.... only if they could be more aggressive. I really like how Sayu claims nobody's cuter than her. She's got some attitude there. :lol:

Offline Fenrir

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Rivalry
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 02:53:34 AM »
I think a rivalry in this sense isnt about hating each other or anything. I think it`s more about trying to outperform each other. By having a sense of rivalry, it makes them try harder and better: singing, dancing, and being funny/interesting on tv shows, thus, their overall quality when performing songs will be better. However, this doesn`t make them hate each other or anything and that they are still friends. "Rivalry" can also mean, not only outdoing each other, but also helping each other too, like pointing out what they are doing wrong and what not. I think that is what Rika and the other older members are trying to say. Having a sense of rival feeling can help put a flame underneath Morning Musume, to "power them up" so to speak, cuz I think what Rika is saying is that the flame right now is kinda dull and low.

Offline Asmodai

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Rivalry
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 05:04:02 AM »
I think you can sort of tell who's got the rivalry thing going. Miki, Yossie, Miki and Takitty appear on screen twice as much as the others, hustle for solo lines, etc.

One thing the recent graduations will do is hopefully force the others to step up a bit.

Offline THUNDERDUCK

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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 05:16:38 AM »
It's the Japanese education program kicking in-  Performance and competition are necessary to better oneself.  Sayumin is right, no one in 6th generation is cuter than her. :twisted:

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Offline Masa

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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 06:21:10 AM »
Quote from: Miki Fujimoto
I mean it in a good way when I say that I hope we don't stay as a group that isn't all "friendly-friendly." After all, Morning Musume originally began as a "a unit with a rivalry sense" and has continued that way. We're good friends normally, but when it's time to work, we're not friends in a good way... I think that's a good thing. It's not that we don't get along, but it's not like we're all "hey~ <3" and clingy like that. I think it would be good if we each raised our rival sense a bit more. And I think it would be good if we didn't just limit this to the members, but also have this sense towards other artists.

Pretty much all 5th and 6th gen members really to step up. It kinda seems like most of the girls in the group are happy with their current positions. If you watch the concerts you can see certain members always trying to outperform others while some girls just are there. And the same thing happens in tv-shows. Some members just sit there all quiet. Makoto is pretty much the only Gorokkie who have gotten some shine in Utaban.  I guess that the biggest problem is that the younger members lack either charisma, looks or singing skills. Especially compared to other generations. If the girls don't step up, MM will soon be a 2 girl(Miki & Takahashi) show.

Offline daigong

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Rivalry
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 08:42:34 AM »
^ word. Reina is about the only one who actually has that edge. I think I read somewhere she said Gocchin was her rival based on how much she looked up to her.

It was kinda strange if one person mentioned it, but when you got Rika, Miki, possibly Yossi and Mari speaking about the same topic. Really makes you wonder.

I agree with Fenrir13, being in the same group - there's always the common goal of putting out a good product. having a rival doesn't mean you gotta beat someone down but to set a standard for yourself. to have a goal. Yossi and Rika always clamied to be each others rivals. Rika even claimed that her mother was her rival!! something like her mom said she was prettier at her age! haha. :D

Having rivals is all about attitude. The "I can't lose, never give up" mentality.

Offline Redturtle

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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 10:00:46 AM »
I won't say Gorokkies lack appearances and voices though, coz frankly none of the 4th gen (exception maybe Aibon) could sing back in 2000 and 6th gen's got the best looks to start off with. It's all about personality. I read the 1-3 gen objected to the fact that Tsunku's adding 2 brats into the group, but 2 months after they didn't even treat them as new members anymore. The older gen members were quick to absorb into the group and worked their ass off to entertain the audience. A few months ago I still treated 5th as new members. Had it not been the series of graduations I probably still would.

Offline shirenuファクトリー

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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 10:15:04 AM »
Quote from: Son Goku

I remember Makoto catching a lot of heat from fans for "speaking up" back when she first joined...

"Speaking up"? You mean she was too loud or what? :o
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Offline elgie

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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2005, 01:51:55 PM »
Quote from: shirenu
Quote from: Son Goku

I remember Makoto catching a lot of heat from fans for "speaking up" back when she first joined...

"Speaking up"? You mean she was too loud or what? :o


When she came in the group, Makoto said she was aiming at being a solo artist. Coming from a new member, some fans found these words pretentious.

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Offline shirenuファクトリー

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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2005, 01:57:55 PM »
Quote from: elgie

When she came in the group, Makoto said she was aiming at being a solo artist. Coming from a new member, some fans found these words pretentious.

Oh...

...That's weird. :o
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Offline elgie

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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2005, 03:12:51 PM »
I remember I almost hated her because of her words. Now that she's pushed in the back, though, I feel very bad, as if we were responsible :(

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Offline shirenuファクトリー

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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2005, 05:37:27 PM »
But... What's wrong with aiming to be a solo artist? Why exactly did people get angry about it? I don't think I understand... Say, if one of the 7th gen audition girls said they aimed to be a solo artist, well, I'd laugh because they suck at singing, but if they had talent (like Mako seemed to have) why get pissed off about it? :o
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Offline bot

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Rivalry
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2005, 05:44:38 PM »
Quote from: elgie

When she came in the group, Makoto said she was aiming at being a solo artist. Coming from a new member, some fans found these words pretentious.


well they should be pleased now, then.

Rika really needs to redistribute her inheritance.

Sayumi gets all the cutesyness, and Ogawa is absolutely trampled on. recurrently rude 2ch posts, utaban sumo jokes, even the face reading 'expert' on the latest utaban was unkind...


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Offline bot

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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2005, 06:04:07 PM »
my mistake, it was on the latest hello morning that the face reading guy said that hitomi had the most clear features of all the members, (eh? what about yaguchi or goto?)implying the opposite was true of ogawa, and that ogawa had a flat face and a rather 'full' face... stuff like that.

I'm sure she is affected... how can one not be... also, yossi was really nice to her after his comments when she usually acts totally insulted to be ogawa's 'partner'... so I'm sure it does cut to some degree. the worst thing is that she is one of the prettier members...  only with a fatally 'full face'


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Offline TheQuickening

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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2005, 07:00:24 PM »
Quote from: Son Goku

Quote from: bot

Sayumi gets all the cutesyness, and Ogawa is absolutely trampled on. recurrently rude 2ch posts, utaban sumo jokes, even the face reading 'expert' on the latest utaban was unkind...


What was said on the latest Utaban?  Not surprising, because people have been pretty much calling her the new Kei Yasuda in regards to Utaban, so maybe it'll be good for her on camera in the long run.  I just hope she's not affected by the teasing too much when the cameras go OFF. :(  

Quote from: shirenu
But... What's wrong with aiming to be a solo artist? Why exactly did people get angry about it? I don't think I understand... Say, if one of the 7th gen audition girls said they aimed to be a solo artist, well, I'd laugh because they suck at singing, but if they had talent (like Mako seemed to have) why get pissed off about it? :o

For starters, the 5th gen was arguably the MOST HATED gen to ever enter Morning Musume.  They had every right to be passive in their earlier days, especially Risa (and Kray can tell you this), who's pictures were BURNED at concerts.  Fans were harsh on the girls, and it took a while for most of the loyal fans to warm to them.

In the case of Mako though (and someone feel free to correct me), I think that people took her comment as, "you just joined the top idol group in Japan and NOW you want to go solo?  Who the HELL do you think you are?"  Yeah, it's ridiculous, but that struck me as the line of thinking after Mako made that comment.  As I also mentioned about Takahashi and Mako's relationship though, I think people still hold grudges towards Mako for their "rivalry".  That's why I'm weary of the word these days, along with my belief that a rivalry won't add that much more to the group except for some nice gossip from bubka.

"Rivalries" are what pushes people to improve themselves, without it, without the girls pushing one another in that fashion, the group would become stagnant, which is what some people say is happening now. I don't see anything wrong with having goals and being ambitious.  Remember Maki did the same thing in that she publicly stated/predicted that one day she'd release songs as a solo artist.  In a lot of Asian cultures having ambition is fine, but it's NOT good if you publicly state them.  So in Mako's case people were just pissed at the fact that she had made this statement so soon after joining MM.  Fans probably thought as saw her as the really overly-ambitious one who'd walk all over the others to acheive her goal at any cost.

It really sux how people dissed 5th gen like that.  Especially Risa.  She was the youngest member of the group, and Tsunku picked her for a reason, he saw something in her that would be good for the group.  If the fans can't see that/disagree with the decision, they should be burning pics of Tsunku, not Risa.  Publicly picking on a young girl like that?  Definitely NOT cool.  Guys like that give fans a bad name.   :x  :x  :x

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Offline Masa

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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2006, 07:01:56 PM »
*bumps*

What's the situation in 2006?

Offline linlin

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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2006, 05:17:01 AM »
they still lack that rivalry feeling. they dont compete with each other, too content with where they are.

Offline aimaime

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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2006, 05:43:10 AM »
Quote from: shirenu
But... What's wrong with aiming to be a solo artist? Why exactly did people get angry about it? I don't think I understand... Say, if one of the 7th gen audition girls said they aimed to be a solo artist, well, I'd laugh because they suck at singing, but if they had talent (like Mako seemed to have) why get pissed off about it? :o


maybe it has something to do with the japanese culture where you're supposed be humble and not stand out? i dont know. maybe she was still new at the time and some fans saw it as a sign of pretentiousness. who knows.

but i think there are more shy members in the current morning musume than the previous gererations. even if they try to go out there and stand out, they still can't be as outrageous as say mari or tsuji because it's not in their nature.

i don't really mind because i think just because you're an idol doesn't mean you have to be hyperactive and good at EVERYTHING. but i think a lot of fans think this is boring and expect them to be as crazy as the previous gens. i mean if you look at women singers outside of H!P some of them are hyper while others have a cool, quiet image. ok i'll stop rambling..

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Offline ayou099

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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2006, 10:25:22 PM »
In 2006:

6th Gen has improved alot, a long way from 2004 anyway. I dont see Koharu as the rivalry type though...... who knows, she could be plotting while putting on that ignorant smile that she has 100% of the time.
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