JPHiP Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tuffty on April 16, 2007, 07:33:06 PM
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At least 31 people have been killed and 10 injured after a gunman went on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia, US. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6560685.stm)
My condolences fo out to all of those involved.
I don't mean to be callous, but this thing is expected with a country that can issue guns out to any Tom, Dick or Harry
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Damn... that's really scary >_< I used to think that the US was such a "safe" place to live, but in these last years I've been proven very mistaken... These kinds of things happening there in schools and now even universities is just crazy. :(
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Well really no Country is safe, I remember Canada had a shooting incident at a Uni. If Canada isn't safe than no place is, unless your living alone <_<
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Just read an article on this in a paper. It's horrible. All those people studying to make something out of life, and suddenly it ends so quickly.
Makes me kinda sad.
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Scary. People that think this is somehow unique to the US need to wake up. There was one in Montreal a few months ago - and Canada has very strict gun laws. I don't think that has a whole lot to do with it.
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Right, the US is not the only country. In Germany we had several of this guys too, but sadly the German government say that ego-shooter games (or how they call them here : "Killergames") are responsible for it, because they don't want to know the true motivations >_<
31 is a really big number of victims. I hate this stupid gunfuckers
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Scary. People that think this is somehow unique to the US need to wake up. There was one in Montreal a few months ago - and Canada has very strict gun laws. I don't think that has a whole lot to do with it.
I'm not saying it solely happens in the US, and if people got that impression, then I apologise. Hell there are evil bastards everywhere. But there's no denying that the US has a large gun culture. And by looking at how easy it is to acquire a gun, it's a deadly and scary tool to give to some potential scum that has no respect for human lives.
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No one needs a gun to kill. If they can't do it with a gun, they'll do it another way. It doesn't matter how hard or easy it is to get a gun. Like Asmo just said, Canada's got strict gun laws and people are still getting guns.
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Damn... that's really scary >_< I used to think that the US was such a "safe" place to live, but in these last years I've been proven very mistaken... These kinds of things happening there in schools and now even universities is just crazy. :(
It's not just that America is not safe, it's just that people there have more access to guns than, say, then the guys who live up above them in Canada. Up here, you have to litterally register a gun, which is just a waste of paperwork, before you can use it. We still have shootings up here, just with illegal smuggled guns.
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I'm agreeing with Tuffty here.
Sure, if someone had gone nuts and really to kill some people, he would use any methods he could and there's no stopping him (Anyone could just just drive their 4WD into a uni and start running over anyone he/she sees and there's no way you can ban cars).
But potentially, it could be a spurt of the moment thing...for example, if a cleaner gets made fun of by some asshole students, he goes home feeling his pride was hurt, then he sees a shot-gun in his cupboard...I guess what I'm saying is that having proper gun laws may not stop all these shootings, but having them reduce some of these spurt of the moment stuff.
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That actually went down not too far from where I am o.o We were talking about it at work today. It made me really sad.
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From what we've seen this was planned. It's the most logical way to explain why he killed one person (girlfriend?) then came back a couple hours later and killed more. I doubt it was spur of the moment.
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We'll have to wait till tomorrow for the identity of the killer and victims. He shot his face off, and had no id.
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I know, its really sad and scary. I live in VA myself so... yeah
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Scary. People that think this is somehow unique to the US need to wake up. There was one in Montreal a few months ago - and Canada has very strict gun laws. I don't think that has a whole lot to do with it.
I didn't mean that the US was the only unsafe place or anything O_o
What I said in my post was only in the context that where I live people are always complaining about crime and saying they want to move to the US cause it's supposedly oh so safe there. I know that there are criminals everywhere in the world and that in reality bad things like this can happen anywhere. But I just meant, in this context, that it's scary that even the places one grows up thinking are the safest, still such tragedies occur.
My prayers are going out to the families of the victims :(
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thats when i think " it's that what everyone calls a "first world country" ? ... sorryto say but ...a country that allow to everyone have a gun ... for a danger that maybe douesn't exist ... too bad for the families ...
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guys, it's been confirmed here..
the dude's chinese, came from china...
i suggested for those of us that's in the States and esp. near the VA/DC region that are of young asian male profiles be alert; u just never know... :-X
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I've got some friends who go to Virginia Tech, and I can only hope and pray that they're okay.
It's unfortunate when these kinds of things happen, that people really feel as if there is no other option left. It shows what the stresses of school, work and relationships can do to some people. Chances are that he was probably bullied some too.
Either that or he was just a nutcase that was bound to crack sooner or later.
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Maybe his instructor gave him a "B". I'm kiddin.... All jokes aside, it's unfortunate this kinda thing happened.
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i just don't get it.
I always poke fun at my friends heading to American schools after graduating from Canadian highschools.
I joke and warn them not to get shot.
maybe it's not a joke anymore.
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guys, it's been confirmed here..
the dude's chinese, came from china...
i suggested for those of us that's in the States and esp. near the VA/DC region that are of young asian male profiles be alert; u just never know... :-X
Excuse me, what do you say?
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y would eh do that? what 4?
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Sad - But not surprising...
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guys, it's been confirmed here..
the dude's chinese, came from china...
i suggested for those of us that's in the States and esp. near the VA/DC region that are of young asian male profiles be alert; u just never know... :-X
sorry guys, apparently the media release wrong info about that shooter's ethinicity last night.
dude's actually Korean, 23 yrs. old senior student from Centerville, VA.
The latter heads-up remains though...since most non-asian american can't tell chinese, japanese, etc. from korean anyway...we DON"T need another "Vincent Chin" incident...so ALL asians, keep safe
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Oh, I read your comment wrong.. Pardon me... I though you say stay away from asian lol.. Duh.. my mistake... -_-"
Just to clarify things.. I'm asian too lol. But from SEA.
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I just wonder what the bloke reason's for the killing of so many. ???
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My friend attends that University, and was present when the shooting took place.
Thankfully she was in the building next to the one where the second shooting took place (and the most deaths happened) so she's fine.
But still, if the shooter decided to walk left instead of right, she could of easily became one of the victims....
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"I used to think that the US was such a "safe" place to live"
Sorry, where you get a gun with opening a bank account, wheres that safe?
That is anarchy, where people are allowed to run open with weapons around. Where kids go to fathers room or a friend to get enough material to start a war. Sorry, I never will go again to the US. I like to live.
I was on a practica in US and saw/heard two gunfights in this time, that was enough for me. Never again!
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I've got friends who attend Tech so I was worried when I heard about it but was relieved when I found out they're ok. May those who lost their lives RIP. The last time I went to tech they had a manhunt out for the an escaped prisoner while I was there but I still felt safe staying in Blacksburg. My condolences to the family and friends of those lost.
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Apparently the guy was a real loner, kept to himself, didn't talk to anyone, etc. and left a note before he went out and killed the people. Also he wrote rather....morbid things as well. Apparently he wrote on a forum that he was going to do it...but I think that's just speculation. He was also on some medication for depression and the like and might've been resposible for burning down a dorm once. What I wanna know is WHY the guy did that....
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He was of Korean Descent and from the DC area. Not Chinese. He was a permanent Alien resident, that was why he was allowed to purchase a handgun.
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This has been on the news everywhere the past two days, I've been sorta following it since a couple hours since it happened. Really tragic news.
lol @ all the comments about guns in the US. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. like a couple others have said, if he didn't have a gun, he would've found another way to do it. And no, people don't carry guns everywhere. It is illegal to have a concealed weapon in the US unless you have a special permit like FBI or something like that. If everyone were walking around with guns, I'd know. Depending on the state, is is extrememly difficult to actually purchase a gun. Actually states with less gun control laws have less reported shootings. Would stronger gun laws do something to prevent these school shootings? Most likely not.
This is a completely isolated incident and has nothing to do with the rest of the US.
I think the biggest problem with the this is that the first shooting was done hours before and the rest of the students didn't even seem to know about it. Come on, if an unkown gunman was walking around campus, shouldn't you tell the people that they might be in danger?
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We are Virginia Tech. We are sad today. Say a prayer for the Hokie Nation.
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It's surprising that he managed to kill 31 people
-he was alone
-he only had 2 handguns
While the 2 columbine shooters didn't kill as many.
-there were 2 of them
-they had many types of guns ranging from rifles, shotguns, semi-automatic machine guns, pipe bombs.
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This guy probably killed people right away. No talking, just shooting. I don't know how killings were spread out, but just a good sized class can have over 30 people. All of the shooting could have been in one room.
Has anything been said about exactly where in the building the shooting took place? I haven't payed much attention after the initial reports.
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Well don't forget he chained the doors together so no one could get in or out of the building. Thats why the death toll was so high.
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Another incident because of gun control in the United States....
My prayer goes to the victims and their friends and family:(
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This sucks. My condolences go out to those who suffered. And yes, gun control laws need to be heightened.
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This was not because of gun control... why do people think anyone in the US can have a gun? Do your research.
This was done by a very sick person on a rampage. If he were to have a car he could've easily used it to run down pedestrians, but you can't blame this on traffic laws. And yes you can do this at the spur of the moment.
I actually read the BBC article, "The US also has a history of school shootings". propaganda bullshit. 4 major cases. Anyone consider how big the United States is? These incidents are as different as the ones that happened in other parts of the world.
Anyways, yeah, he chained the doors shut so people couldn't get out of the building. People were jumping out of windows and getting injured, so I'm thinking this was not on the first story.
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great.............. asians are gonna be the 'new muslims'................ just what we all need...
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lol I thought of that, but don't think it's going to go as far as that. Though I could see some backlash from this. It's kinda funny cause when they first showed the guy's photo on TV, some guy walked in front of me who looked a lot like him.
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A friend of mine called me and said the killer looked like you. Reinforcement for women that "he's Asian, so he's probably boring and psychotic."
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It won't go that far. There will be a few ignorant people who will take it that far. This doesn't seem like an "Us vs. Them" motivated kinda thing.
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Just by reading this thread, you can tell who's most likely American and who's not, by the ones that say America doesn't need to review their gun laws. :shakes head:
Back in '96, Martin Bryant (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/bryant/) went on a killing spree in Tasmania, Australia. 19hrs later, 35 victims had been fatally shot. Because of this, Australia's gun laws were promptly changed. But still, it was one too many shooting sprees.
How many more shooting sprees need to happen in America before they realize their constitution is seriously outdated??
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Nagasaki mayor was shot dead yesterday in Japan by a lone elderly yakuza gunman. He was shot at the subway station during mayoral re-election campaign. Japan also prohibit gun ownership for individual.
US needs to tighten gun control law. But terrible things like this will never stop.
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I never said gun laws don't need to be reviewed. I think the whole Bill of Rights needs to be reviewed to some extent. I still think qualified trained people should be able to have a gun if they wished and must keep it away from access to other people.
But you can't prevent a person from going mad and killing people by changing gun laws.
Do we even know how this guy got the gun in the first place?
There are a lot more details to this than just "oh it's cause he could just buy a gun at the local wal-mart when he wanted to".
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They know that he did obtain one gun legally. I haven't heard anything about the other one though. Even with better laws, he could have gotten guns illegally.
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But still, don't you think better gun control regulation would reduce the % of people getting shot randomly?
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It would decrease the occurrence, though I don't think by a huge amount. I think more for the spur of the moment murders. Ones that are planned out would probably decrease by a little. A little bit is better than nothing. I never said that we couldn't benefit from better laws. Before, people made it seem like the only reason this happened was because our gun laws are so loose.
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Due to the "right to keep and bear arms" crap, America just has a stupid amount of guns per capita, which in turn makes it possible to sell and buy illegal firearms so easily. (sell and report it stolen)
Again with Australia, after the Port Arthur Massacre, the government introduced a "Gun Buy Back (http://www.guncontrol.org.au/index.php?article=58)" scheme where people could sell their legal/illegal firearms back to the government, no questions asked.
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Horrible, how people are judging people by their race. I read the comment on how "Asians are going to become the new Muslims". How narrow-minded you are to say such a thing like that.
1. Not every person who follows the Islam faith is a Radical Muslim, such as the suicide bombers and such.
2. I am certain that Seung-Hi did not attempt this because of his faith.
Take Charles Joseph Whitman for example. He killed 15 people and attempted to kill 30 others. I've yet to hear that the Americans are the terrorists, bad guys or whatever. What makes a person a killer is their own mind, not because of the race they were born into.
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Due to the "right to keep and bear arms" crap, America just has a stupid amount of guns per capita, which in turn makes it possible to sell and buy illegal firearms so easily. (sell and report it stolen)
I agree that that part of the US constitution is stupid. But the constitution will not be changed because many of those people don't want restrictions on them being able to have a gun.
States and cities though are allowed to have their own gun laws. California itself has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, but some of the cities with the highest rate of gun violence is in California. Of course these are not televised like this particular incident. Many of these cases are of a smaller scale and happen more frequently with many of them done by illegally obtained weapons(I've personally been affected by stuff like this). If we were to adopt a stricter policy as Australia did, I don't see much change going to happen as it will do little to stop the black market of firearms distribution already established and will probably make things worse.
But that's just locally. There are many places in the US and in California where you can't even imagine gun violence to occur. Most of those places have relatively weak gun laws and can probably benefit from stricter laws. Virginia is probably one of them. Though a doubt that would've prevented a guy with a clean record from eventually getting his guns.
The US is too big and diverse to apply a strict federal gun law on, I think.
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lol Stricter gun laws would just make things worse.
People are stubborn by nature, when they're told not to do something, or if something is forbidden they're more likely to do it just because of that high they get from 'Teehee I'm doing something bad.' Some might not even give 2 shits about the gun itself, but might get one just to make that 'You can't control me blah-blah' statement.
I'm reminded of when America tried to ban alcoholic beverages a looong loooong time ago, and people ended up just drinking more and more. Moonshine or whatever became really popular and alcohol consumption went up and etcetc, so they just decided to make Alcohol legal again.
Anyway, point is that the more you try to restrict people, the more they're going to rebel. Maybe not because they agree with the cause, but maybe just for the sake of rebelling, because people are like that.
"Tell me something I can't do, and I'll do it."
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^ I take it you're American. :p
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lol internets. I love how something like this can turn into gun control policy dick-waving contest. I think instead of criticizing another country's policies, or wondering what gun control laws could of prevented this incident, we should be asking why someone would do this in the first place. I think it's more important to try to understand what could bring a person to do something so horrible, stop dwelling on the "how" and start looking for the "why". I doesn't matter how hard it becomes to get a hold of a firearm, murderous intent is not proportional to accessibility weapons.
(and Guchi_Jnr, seeing as you're so curious: yes, I am an American, and I think you should think about what you say before you say it.)
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The problem is in the US anyone can get a gun. And now you say he would have done it some other way. Maybe... with a knife? 30 victims? Unlikely... A bomb... gas? Still kinda difficult and it needs some long term plans to kill people like that. But with a handgun you just have to snap once and you have tens of victims.
And yes, other countries have school shootings as well, but rate in the US is something extraordinary. In Finland there's the largerst guns/capita rate after the US and Yemen and there has been none.
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President Roh Offers Condolence to US
President Roh Moo-hyun said Wednesday that he and the entire nation were shocked by a massacre at a U.S. university by a South Korean student, offering his condolences to the United States. (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/nation_view.asp?newsIdx=1167&categoryCode=113)
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lol internets. I love how something like this can turn into gun control policy dick-waving contest. I think instead of criticizing another country's policies, or wondering what gun control laws could of prevented this incident, we should be asking why someone would do this in the first place. I think it's more important to try to understand what could bring a person to do something so horrible, stop dwelling on the "how" and start looking for the "why". I doesn't matter how hard it becomes to get a hold of a firearm, murderous intent is not proportional to accessibility weapons.
Unfortunately the why is something I don't think many will understand. You can say he was depressed, disturbed and had a grudge on an ex-lover, but I'll never know how someone can have such disregard for human life.
You ask me, it just doesn't make sense that a student can walk in a gun store and buy an assault rifle. It's chilling. Why is this so obvious to those living outside of the US, but being thought of as anti-American to many Americans. Does being American mean you have to be pro-gun? I don't think so. It's understandable every person should have the right to defend themselves, yet people forget that these rights can be so easily exploited for someone to use the gun for ill intent against somebody, or in this case, many. Obviously tragedies like this is something every society is burdened with, but tougher control should be put in place to stop massacres or shootings of any kind by disturbed individuals like this and politicians should acknowledge the desperate need for this.
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to those who are talking about the idea of changing "The regulation of gun owning/handling", remember that a person don't necessary need a gun to kill anyone... so changing or forcing more strict policy doesn't necessary help reducing crime/death rate.
Also as I have been reading different news about this tragedy on different newspapers, all people feel sad/sympathy to those there were killed by Cho Seung-Hui. But I wonder does anyone feel sad for Cho himself that led him to did this? I don't mean he has no guilt doing this, but what I tried to say is that I, personally, felt sad for this whole tragedy and all those (the innocents and Cho himself) who died/injured.
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WBC is rumored to protest the funerals.
say what you will about gun control or the decline of america, but in my opinion, organizations like WBC cause more damage to society than unforeseeable outbreaks of violence.
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lol internets. I love how something like this can turn into gun control policy dick-waving contest. I think instead of criticizing another country's policies, or wondering what gun control laws could of prevented this incident, we should be asking why someone would do this in the first place. I think it's more important to try to understand what could bring a person to do something so horrible, stop dwelling on the "how" and start looking for the "why". I doesn't matter how hard it becomes to get a hold of a firearm, murderous intent is not proportional to accessibility weapons.
(and Guchi_Jnr, seeing as you're so curious: yes, I am an American, and I think you should think about what you say before you say it.)
No one is ever going to be 100% certain as to "why" he went on a murderous rampage, because he is the only person who knows, and like so many before him, he took himself out at the end. So unless he left a detailed note as to "why", all you're going to get is speculation. And even if people do know why, can't see that stopping the next guy from doing the same again, since what makes one guy snap might be completely different for the next. But if things stay as they are, one thing you can count on, is the next homicidal maniac (whether it's due to being depressed, bullied, dumped, movies, video games, whatever) that attacks an American school will be guns blazing.
John Velleco from the group Gun Owners of America says if there were more guns on the campus, students might have stopped the gunman sooner.
"It's tragic to mandatorily disarm the citizenry and create these gun-free zones which in a sense give these deranged madmen easy targets," he said.
With logic like that, there's just no hope!!
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i don't think har meant "why" with regard to "if we could ask him why he did it". i think har is talking about a more subtle and complex "why", as in "what were the things that caused him to develop an unstable personality". there are plenty of things you can observe in any society that cause anomalies within individuals: parents who mistreat their children, teenagers who feel peer pressure, unwarranted prejudice, etc. of course there's never an easy answer, and for every individual there's a unique set of factors. but this guy did not grow up isolated from the world--he was part of the world; and as unstable as his mind may have become, part of the world had its share in making it that way.
there's some validity behind suggesting disarmament, insofar as understanding that guns are a technological means (not a cause) to a particular end. but even if we got rid of guns, that doesn't guarantee that an individual won't be treated poorly to such an extent that they become unstable--and that is really the problem that needs to be addressed (in ANY society, not just america).
and this is really the heart of the matter: what is being expressed here is a psychological inability to cope with various problems that are present in society, and a buildup and eventual release of that pressure through physical means (guns). a lot of people ask how this guy could possibly be so cold-hearted and not value human life: the problem is that you're assessing him through your way of seeing the world, and since for most of us we've never had traumatic experiences that shatter our personalities, it's impossible to conceive such an unstable mind. but you need to put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself: what did the world look like through his eyes?
there are plenty of independant films that attempt to capture a psychological dystopia; soundtracks of dissonant chords and screeching sounds, violent flashes of horrific images, etc. we understand these to be artistic films, but is it so far-fetched to think that a human being may actually live their life constantly seeing the world in such a way? there are plenty of disorders that can attribute to such a viewpoint, particularly post-traumatic syndrome amongst war veterans. if the world that existed in your mind was one of unending agony, it's feasible to locate guns, violence, and death within it.
i'm sure everyone has their take on "what went wrong with this guy", or simple one-liners about what's wrong with america, or any number of generalized opinions. but i believe more will eventually come to light, and largely due in part to sociologists that will attempt to reconstruct his psyche. most people will treat this as either the tragedy that it is or another example in what's wrong with america and/or its constitution. but true progress will be made if we can all understand that this guy (as well as others before him) was not simply a murderer, but in many ways a victim of harsh social conditions.
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I agree that only him who know why he did such a thing, even if he did leave a note explaining why he did so, it would probably only be the reason that he wants other people to believe, and not necessarily be the real reason. Obviously, he's a minority and he's bound to get some from of rejection/racism through his life, he may or may not have been bullied during his schooling life and let's be honest here, there can be a lot of assholes that can make your dorm life miserable.
In my view, humans are not perfect, in fact history shows us that we are anything but. I think everyone, at some stage in their lives, even for a short moment, thinks about killing, or at the very least 'getting rid' of someone that you either hate or had wronged you. But how many of us actually go through with it? Most of us are bounded by commonsense that you simply have no right to end someone else' existence, some of us fear the consequences, a few of us that just 'nice' people that wouldn't hurt an ant. For someone to explode like that, there must be a trigger - and we might and might not find out.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous when they dig up his creative writing stuff and start saying that because he wrote such thing, he's a violent person and all these class mates saying he's dangerous...it's all hindsight crap the way I see it.
No, I don't think relaxed gun laws created the shooting, but it sure made the process a lot easier. A pull of a trigger and a life is gone, if he was just wielding a knife or an axe, would he have been able to kill so many? I agree that guns are not the cause of the event, but I failed to see how having relaxed gun laws didn't help made this event possible.
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This tragedy will happen again unless US gun laws would be radically overhauled.
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I agree that guns are not the cause of the event, but I failed to see how having relaxed gun laws didn't help made this event possible.
I dunno. While tougher gun laws may have prevented this, I doubt one would have too much trouble getting a gun on the black market if he so wishes, especially in the US.
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This tragedy will happen again unless US gun laws would be radically overhauled.
just because a killer uses a gun doesn't make this any more tragic. sure, if he had used a knife, he may not have killed as many people. and the media likes to overplay these statistics. if he had only killed 10 people, it may not be anything more than local news. but would killing only 10 people be any less tragic than killing 32? taking 1 human life or taking 100, or even just taking your own is tragic enough.
sure, at the end of the day, with stricter gun control, he may not have been able to kill so many people. but you're fooling yourself, and allowing yourself to fall into the media's statistics hype if you are only paying attention to this incident because of its facts (ie: easily acquired guns and 32 victims). in reality, there are murders everyday throughout the whole world, and many under motives similar to what this guy seems to have gone through. and i sure hope that you aren't going to compare this as being more tragic than others "because of guns".
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as an addendum, i have a bit to say about various agendas people are pushing. people are looking for answers by blaming gun control, and others are blaming video games. i have this to say:
if seung-hui cho played video games, then video games are partially responsible
seung-hui cho was able to get a gun, so relaxed gun control is partially responsible
in fact, everything that made seung-hui cho into the person he was two days ago is partially responsible
once you step back and realize this, you'll see that guns and games are only two details in a much larger picture. surely gun control is a step in the right direction. but it's only one step in a very long path.
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He did one better than a detailed note, and sent a rambling video to NBC between the 1st 2 victims and the classroom massacres.
mms://media4.abc.net.au/winlibrary/news/200704/20070419-cho-1_16_9_bband.wmv
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i know which county that have no serious killing cases....
Malaysia.....hehehhe
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but would killing only 10 people be any less tragic than killing 32? taking 1 human life or taking 100, or even just taking your own is tragic enough.
Of course killing 10 people is less tragic than killing 32? According to your logic taking your own life is tragic enough to take 30 or 50 with you... because it can't be more tragic because one life itself hits the top of the tragicmeter.
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so if he was only able to kill 10 people, it wouldn't be such a big deal, and we could all go on with our lives and not stop to think about this?
the value of 1 human life is immeasurable. the value of 10 or 100 is equally immeasurable, because there's no way you can compare something that can't be quantified. if you do try to quantify 10 victims as being less tragic than 32 victims, then you (perhaps inadvertantly) imply that 10 people's lives are somehow not as valuable as the other 22 that may have survived.
is it any more okay to kill 10 people than it is to kill 32? no, and therein lies the truth that taking ANY number of lives is immesurably tragic.
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if you think ahead to the future, and speculate if another incident happened: if another killer goes out and murders people, but this time only kills 10 people, what are people going to say? "oh, it wasn't as bad as the v-tech massacre". is it okay to just leave it at that? what if they only killed one person? it's still a tragedy, and they're all equally tragic.
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After watching CNN for the past however many days, I must say that I don't see where all of this 'pressure' on him came from.
People in school don't even remember him, they don't remember him being bullied or anything, or don't remember bullying him themselves. All they remember is that he was a loner, that didn't really seem to want to have human contact. One girl said that in High School, she'd see him walking down the hallway, and would make eye contact or try to say hi, but he wouldn't respond or he would just stare at her like he didn't want anything to do with her. I'm beginning to believe that maybe it wasn't the stresses of life itself that got to this guy, but maybe just the plain fact that he was off his rocker.
I mean, what'd he say, something like he's the new Jesus Christ or something? A savior for the overlooked or whatever? What BS. I can't feel sorry for him at all, because he seemed to have alienated himself. Imaginary girlfriends, stalking, disturbed literature and etc. He didn't even talk much to his 2 roommates that he'd been with. I could understand if he tried to reach out for help, and was denied, but his teacher reached out to him, and got him councelling, but he either didn't give 2 shits about recovery, or was beyond repair.
Anyway, as for the other stuff: Yes, I am American. But am I pro-guns? No. I'd rather not have people running around with them, because people are destructive. Even shit that people try to do right sometimes end up worse than it started out as. I was just saying that even if we did make stricter gun laws, that it might not necessarily work. So the gun laws become stricter, who's to say that he couldn't have gotten them off of some street vendor that sells them illegally? Or that he couldn't have made a bomb with the readily available Anarchists Cookbook (http://www.beyondweird.com/cookbook.html) instead and took the school building down with him instead of just students and teachers? If someone as crazy as him was really bent on sending out his message, if he couldn't have guns he'd find some other way. People always do.
And there would be so many things to overcome before anti-gun laws could come into place. There's the fact that our president & v.p are Red Necks and would be so opposed to stricter gun laws, or getting rid of guns. Even after Cheney shot that man in the face, and this. And then the Constitution itself.
I'd like a little more peace & safety yes, but I'm not too optimistic about it happening so soon.
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It's very possible not everyone was telling the truth. There were probably people who made fun of him to his face and behind his back. I doubt anyone would get on TV now and talk about how he/she used to make fun of him. Pressure could also have come from him to do well in school. Being a loner, he may have decided that no one likes him or cares about him. I've known a lot of people like this. They're convinced that everyone else is stupid or a "conformist" because they may not like them. Even when you try to reach out to some of these people, they don't reach back. One of his teachers said she tried to talk with him, but he never really cared to talk with her.
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Well naturally if you were one of the ones who bullied him, you wouldn't have aired yourself out on TV. Someone else who was a bystander might've though, and out of all of the people who've been on the Tube so far, none of them have reported such things. I get where you coming from though, and this doesn't mean that bullying couldn't have existed. It's just that you'd think someone that knew him would recall him being teased.
And I think I remember that teacher. She had an accent, and took him out of the main English class to teach him one on one. He didn't respond at first, or something like that, but eventually opened up and agreed to counseling, but only went for a little bit.
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He was a very disturbed and depressed person. He had to deal with pressures in life as well as all the stuff that was going on in his head. You don't have to have had a shitty life to have shitty thoughts. I have no pity for him, but I can see how he could've possibly thought this was something he wanted to do. One thing I know is that he wanted to be known and shake the world. And he accomplished that. Why else would he make that video tape. He wanted massive media coverage.
There are way too many factors in this that the blame can't be pin pointed in any real direction.
I have say, being "American" has little to do with my viewpoints on gun laws. I talk shit and critisize American policy and the status quo all the time. I just know that making new gun laws won't necessarily make anything better in the US when it comes to guns. Not living in the US some of you probably might not see where I'm coming from though. I live here, I know what's going on in my neighborhood. I can see how new federal laws could effect the place where I live. You can't change what happened in the past and a sudden change in policy is not going to fix things.
And about someone else in the building having a gun. If someone else in the building was to have a gun and stopped Cho, I'm almost certain he wouldn't have been able to kill as many people as he did. If everyone in the building were to have a gun I doubt Cho would have been able to kill more than one person. But he still would've done something anyway and lives would be lost.
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Sorry, but I really don't buy that everyone carrying a gun is safer than everyone without one thoery.
Just say everyone carries a gun. Some loner dude looking really angry barges into the room. He's reaching into his pocket in his trench coat. Do you shoot him? He could be reaching into a gun, he could be reaching for a pack of cigarettes, he could be reaching for his ipod. And the next thing he knows, 20 people might have had drawn their guns and fired and he's very dead.
It's true guns don't kill, humans do. But humans also makes a lot and I mean a lot of judgement errors.
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lol I never said it was safer than everyone without one. They're two extremes. Both is a bad idea.
But do you really think someone would go into a room to shoot someone if he knew many of them had guns. It's like trying to kill a man in an IRA meeting.
Atleast one person in that building should've had a gun or some sort of weapon. And that person should have been a security or police officer.
One thing that bothers me is that nobody is mentioning how the security was. This guy has the time to chain the doors, kill 30 people from different rooms, and then himself with two handguns. I'd understand if he was using a semi-automatic weapon. But he even had the chance to reload new clips, so he actually let go of his guns at some point. Yet nobody was able to stop the guy.
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^ Thats where most of the speculation is. Why didn't police or whoever else, cancel classes that day after the first two killings where there was a 2hr gap in which he was able to mail the packages. That made no sense to me. They had 2 victims around 7am and a vague email about it didn't get sent out until 9am, when he was already headed for the next building.
Oh and on the reloading thing, they said that he was well-trained in it, like how you see in the movies. Where they drop the clips really quick and get new ones in so that they don't have to stop for prolonged periods of time or whatever.
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I was watching this news coverage on the event and it's seriously very depressing. My condolences to all their families.
There's this article that says he was indeed picked on. Not sure whether it's 100% true or not.
In high school, Cho Seung-Hui almost never opened his mouth. When he finally did, his classmates laughed, pointed at him and said: "Go back to China."
Classmates in Virginia, where Cho grew up, said he was teased and picked on, apparently because of shyness and his strange, mumbly way of speaking.
Once, in English class at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., when the teacher had the students read aloud, Cho looked down when it was his turn, said Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior and high school classmate. After the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho began reading in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.
"The whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIRGINIA_TECH_SHOOTING?SITE=NYROR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I read this other article saying that his poems led them to believe he was sexually abused as a child.
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^ Thats where most of the speculation is. Why didn't police or whoever else, cancel classes that day after the first two killings where there was a 2hr gap in which he was able to mail the packages. That made no sense to me. They had 2 victims around 7am and a vague email about it didn't get sent out until 9am, when he was already headed for the next building.
Yeah, that's simply ridiculous. It's freaking ridiculous how the biggest part of this tragedy could've been avoided or minimized if the university and the police had been more responsible with the students. They claim that they did not do anything at first cause they thought the 2 killings were just an isolated incident. WTF. As long as they had a freaking killing on campus, and a killer on the loose, even if they "thought" he might have left the campus already WTF! Their job is not to assume that the killer maybe left. Their job was to protect the students of any potential danger. How the hell could they just go with assuming and not evacuated the university knowing a killer might be inside it. Even if it was an isolated event. Who cares? They knew there was an armed killer around and they did nothing to prevent the tragedy that ensued. A stupid email 2 hrs later? How many people would even read that email instantly? Seriously, WTF.
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Yes I read in the paper that he was teased and insulted during his time at school. I also read that the photos he sent to NBC drew parallel with the final scenes of Old-Boy, and that he may have been posessed by the devil. I agree with an earlier post saying that everything in life affects us in some way, but I don't think a cult movie or 'demonic posession' had a greater influence on him than racial abuse by his peers.
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This whole this is so messed up. As an American, there are so many problems that were exposed from this incident. First, the university was tipped off several times that something like this was gonna happen with this particular individual. But the officials could not take action becuase there was no hard facts, only here-say. It's kind of messed up because it's one of the biggest loopholes in the bill of rights, specifically the fourth and fourteenth amendment. I mean to say it's unconstitutional to intervene on a student who could potentially take out 31 other people, is pretty messed up. Even though gun control is a really touchy subject, there's so many problems with it. Like in Virginia, someone could literally walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun. In some other states, like California, you're actually required to wait a seven day period in order to get the gun. Also it's against the law to do a medical background check, so the gun store couldn't know that the guy was recently inducted into a psychiatric hospital. (I know that he had two guns, and that he probably would have underwent the killings even with one gun, but it's surprising how he was allowed to buy another gun. I also agree with the statement that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", but that really has no relevance to my argument.) Another problem is the American culture. The modern generation is so 'dumbed' down from violence games that their response is totally different than what it was before. That could also be argued conversely, with people's desires to kill other people.
And that's where my view of Gun control lies. I believe that the paradigm of gun control should effectively change, but there shouldn't be full gun control (hypocritical? I know =\). Even if people couldn't buy guns legally, they'd peruse buying illegal guns. Personally, I would never own a gun, but I have no right to say that guns should totally be outlawed.
I'm already starting to see a backlash... even from California. A Korean chick I work with in the pharmacy is getting cold shouldered by many of the customers, and it's bullshit. It's inevitable, but there are gonna be un-educated people who will start to make remarks against Asians, regardless of whether or not they're Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.
Man, there are so many weak points in my post. (Go easy on me >_>)
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I'm already starting to see a backlash... even from California. A Korean chick I work with in the pharmacy is getting cold shouldered by many of the customers, and it's bullshit. It's inevitable, but there are gonna be un-educated people who will start to make remarks against Asians, regardless of whether or not they're Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.
Yeah, that is just bullshit. There's been something like close to 20 school shootings in the past decade in America (though this one had the biggest death toll) and just because it's done by an some with Asian instead of a anglo-saxon descent, somehow the Asian community needs to bear the consequences? But I agree it's inevitable, there are always going to be racist people, it's just that somehow it becomes appropriated after incidents such as this. Sad, really.
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I've mentioned this before, but I'm from VA myself. Not just anywhere in Va, Northern Va, this is also the area where the shooter lived.I actually have a friend who lives in the same town.
I look at thing shooting in a different way, since its more local to me, and I know a few ppl that went to tech. It's been a real tough week.A gradutae of my highschool, a guy that gradutated in '73, had a daughter that was one of the victims.
Today In my math class, about 14 of us in there, a girl, a graduate from my school who is a senior at tech came to visit. She walked into the room and hugged my math teacher, And then she started to cry, I had no idea who she was, but after she started to cry, I knew it had to do something with tech.So the left the classroom and returned a few minutes later. My teacther introduced her, and the girl said something about just returning from a girl's funeral, a victim by the name of caitlin i think, and she also mentioned about being in blacksburg VA, for the week.
After that she thanked us and left. When all these shootings happened, I thought about how these familes and friends exprienced a loss and hurt, but when I say this girl cry, that's when I truly realized my much this shooter hurt VA tech students that weren't wounded or killed in the accident.Being close to death is a scary thing. I always thought of the places surronding my home were safe. Around 2001, one lady was killed in one of ther sniper killings terriozing the DC, Maryland, and VA area.
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I hate how anything that happens in this country involving a "minority" or "immigrant" ends up with a bunch of racist crap.
Something I heard on the news last night from I think it was the police chief or some other head guy in Blacksburg that disturbed me. "People who are not used to seeing these kind of images shouldn't have had to see them" or something along those lines. Take it as you will, but it was one of those things that just made me say "WTF is that supposed to mean?"
All this political crap going on I never really said how the event itself makes me feel.
I'm extremely saddened by the events that have taken place. My prayers go out to all who were effected by this tragedy. The past few days this thing has been on my mind, and has just made me think about so many things.
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I just watched Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine again and it's a good reminder on what really drives tragedies like these is not just screwed up individuals going on a rampage but something clearly wrong with American culture. After all societies with a higher ratio of guns to people have much lesser murder rates than the USA.
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If by American culture, you mean the media, then I might agree.
It's great that the media covers things and lets the world know what's going on, but repeatedly showing pictures of him with guns to his head, and clips of him talking about how he's some kind of savior can potentially be fuel for other psycho's out there. This is exactly what he wanted, exposure, and I don't think we should give it to him. Report the tragedy, honor the victims and move on with life. I'm pretty sure there will be a E! True Hollywood Story that comes out a few years down the road that will explain everything behind why he was so fucked up, and so they don't need to be constantly airing his message and rubbing it in everyones face now.
Like how my friend in Reno, Nevada told me that apparently now Reno University is shut down due to bomb threats, and that most likely whoever was behind this recent event was inspired by the VA Tech shootings.
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Yeah, it's sad how he actually got all he wanted. He wanted the exposure and "fame" and the assholes gave him just that. Playing his video over and over on TV just like he wanted. Stupid people...
And for what? By showing his video all they're doing is creating terror on vulnerable people, and giving incentive to other potential killers like him. Just like this killer called the Columbine killers "martyrs", some other fucked up kid in the future will probably idolize all these degenerates and pull off another mass killing. And why? Because what the media is showing to all the fucked up minds like theirs is that they can pull this off and get their message across and get their fame and be remembered forever.
I wish that media would not have shown the videos, and instead had just given more attention to the victims maybe... to show people that doing a horrible crime like this won't get you the attention you want.
Now that the idiots gave this killer what he wanted, I just hope it doesn't cause other kids to go kill more people to become famous and have their message displayed on TV.
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There have been a few cases of people making threats around here. There have been quite a few threats a few weeks before the shooting, but now it seems like some people are just doing to shut their schools down for a bit.
About his video, it does suck that he got what he wanted. But with the showing, people get to at least see who he his. With anything like this, focus has to be on the victims and the attackers. You can learn about just the victims, but that's only half of what's going on. The media could've handled the video much better though. I heard that NBC put their logo on the vid so that no matter what other stations showed it, NBC would still be visible. That's just fucked.
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I don't get people saying "He got the media coverage he wanted", because the guy's going to be none the wiser if they show it or not...cause he's dead.
Personally, I found it interesting trying to understand what the hell was going through his head, and why he snapped.
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I don't get people saying "He got the media coverage he wanted", because the guy's going to be none the wiser if they show it or not...cause he's dead.
So what if he's dead, he'll still be going down in history for doing what he did. It's obvious that's one of the things he was hoping to achieve, if not exactly what he wanted. That video itself could be full of bullshit that he made up for all we know. He new it would attract massive media attention. Just look at all the other dead school shooters, people are still talking about them after so many years.
From looking at how everything went down, I don't think he actually "snapped". He probably carefully planned all of this for a long time.
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I'm already starting to see a backlash... even from California. A Korean chick I work with in the pharmacy is getting cold shouldered by many of the customers, and it's bullshit. It's inevitable, but there are gonna be un-educated people who will start to make remarks against Asians, regardless of whether or not they're Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.
It hadn't even occurred to me that might happen. Although I did read a post on another forum where someone said something along the lines of "there's the excuse Bush has been looking for to finally go to war with Korea", obviously he meant North Korea. Some people are so uneducated!
I have no real thoughts on this whole thing except for the Oldboy stuff. The Sun (the most popular daily paper in England) had half a page talking about Oldboy.
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So what if he's dead, he'll still be going down in history for doing what he did. It's obvious that's one of the things he was hoping to achieve, if not exactly what he wanted. That video itself could be full of bullshit that he made up for all we know. He new it would attract massive media attention. Just look at all the other dead school shooters, people are still talking about them after so many years.
True. He did praise the shooters at Columbine as "martyrs", so I think there's the explanation as to why he did it.
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I don't get people saying "He got the media coverage he wanted", because the guy's going to be none the wiser if they show it or not...cause he's dead.
What SITS said.
This VT killer obviously somehow got some inspiration from the Columbine killers, since he mentions them in his written document and even called them "martyrs". And he said something about him being like Jesus Christ and becoming an inspiration for future generations of people who feel like him. Even though he's dead, his actions and the exposure and fame he's gotten could have a big impact on young weak disturbed minds.
Personally, I found it interesting trying to understand what the hell was going through his head, and why he snapped.
If people are interested in understanding the mind of a killer, then they should go take a psychology class. A tragedy like this should be handled seriously and carefully, not just using it to get ratings and to cater to the curious masses. Everyone is probably interested in knowing why he did this, but that's just not reason enough to give his so-called "manifesto" so much exposure.
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Well he got the media coverage he wanted. But it really doesn't matter whether they had shown it or not. He is still dead and he has still killed 30 people. I think not showing his video for "revenge" (not letting have what he wanted) is kinda naive. Bad things happen in the world. Censoring the news won't make it any better.
And what comes to adding the NBC logo to the video... Isn't it the normal procedure when one of the TV stations have rights to some material.
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Cho Seung-Hui's ebay account http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=blazers5505
Ebay keep messing with that page. First they started deleting some of the auction pages, then they made him not a registered user, and now they've made the feedback private.
(http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2007/chofeedbacken1.th.jpg) (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chofeedbacken1.jpg)
There was Item #150105080082, Mar-23-07 11:53, oneclickshooting (14482). I never did see what that one was cos they deleted the page quickly.
He bought magazine clips. "Walther P22 standard 10 round magazines 2 pack" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140098812797 That page has gone as well, it was there yesterday.
(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5589/chomagazinestz5.th.jpg) (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chomagazinestz5.jpg)
This one's still there. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200070466090 Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus with games
"The calculator was used for less than one semester then I dropped the class."
A rather unfortunate choice of words.
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3286/chocalcrn2.th.jpg) (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chocalcrn2.jpg)
He was also a ticket tout: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200058573157
This is the most bizarre one: "Three dozen Fun Rubber Duck Duckie Ducks (Brand New)" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5662643381 (EDIT: Link works, I missed a 1 off the end before)
"One Giant Jumbo Rubber Duck, Duckie, Large Quack" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5661942065
(Page also archived at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0422071cho1.html)
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other than the magazine clips his account seems pretty normal
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"three dozen fun rubber duckies?"
You know what? I think I know what that was for. He probably took them to a remote place somewhere and used them for target practice! Isn't that what all sickoes go and do first? "live out in their mind what they are going to do in real life, probably talking to himself, rehearsing for his "grand performance"!
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So sad........for those who are studying in US, just one word to you all - "Be Careful"