JPHiP Forum

The PIEHOLE => H!P Crapola => Topic started by: Rayle on August 04, 2009, 08:56:55 PM

Title: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Rayle on August 04, 2009, 08:56:55 PM
I was inspired by Soshified Subs' "[noembed]Guide to SNSD (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=284BF5EC3D9127C0)[/noembed]" playlist, which WORKED and got me hardcore into SNSD.

So what would a parallel H!P/MM playlist look like? Keep in mind people who may have never even encountered Jpop before might watch this.

I'm not comfortable trying for the other groups/all H!P yet (haven't watched enough stuff, but Berryz/C-ute will definitely need their Music Fighters), so here's my MM playlist:

I tried to highlight every generation, but Golden Age did end up with more material. Recent MM is better for people who have been fans and have that sentimental bond already, or like their current style of music/performance.
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: redux on August 04, 2009, 11:01:59 PM
The surprise English lessons are a must fi you ask me, that's what got me into them. I also know a fair few people who aren't even fans of H!P stuff but still enjoy watching them. To go with that I'd say the English Haro Moni Academy episode of Hello! Morning should be in there for much the same reason. Recently one fo my friends, who has known about Morning Musume for about three years and knew how much I lvoed them has recently started to watch their stuff and loves it; I was surprised when he asked me to send im some of their music as he's much more of a hard rock fan.

Any Hello! Morning centering around the girls are obviously preferred, using those god awful compedy Grand Prix ones is a BAD idea as not only are they not funny but we don't even see much of the actual members. The battle in Hawaii, Christmas special and the various appearances on FUN are also stuff that I've found non-fans to enjoy so I'm sure they could brainwash a few people.
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Slack on August 05, 2009, 06:12:10 AM
FUN is a definite recommend.  How can you say no to the source of the famous "Japanese girls get scared of The Ring" clip?  Similarly, the 13-nin Gakkari Christmas special, where the famous lizard clip came from.  Add in the minimoni & prarie dog clip ("dramatic chipmunk"), and your intro could be "hey, you've actually seen some of their stuff and you didn't even know it".

Depending on how sadistic your friend is, the Rika vs. the chickens clips might be good too.

I agree with all that's been listed so far, special emphasis on Okajo and select Surprise English Lessons.  Rika and Kaori were particularly cute and memorable for me.

The "All for One and One For All" PV was a pretty big factor in sparking my interest, too.  For a new person, maybe not until after some other clips, since it can be overwhelming.  Still, the image of dozens of idols dancing like a small army singing and dancing their way to world domination was pretty powerful to me.  I found myself re-watching it whenever I learned who another one of the girls was. (Similar situation for the Joshi Kashimashi Monogatari PV.)  Both of these might be best used after some of the other clips have been seen though.
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: shirenuファクトリー on August 05, 2009, 08:43:35 AM
The "Japanese girls get scared of the Ring" clip can backfire, too - you're laughing AT the girls, not WITH the girls. That video has been popularly linked even among people who aren't into Jpop, and they never really seem to become interested in the girls, just laugh at the "crazy Japanese" (lol I always read the comments when I see that vid linked somewhere). So I'd warmly recommend something that isn't a prank that makes fun of the girls, but something where the girls get to show off their own sense of humour or other skills lol

There were some Haromoni specials where Nacchi or someone else was a judge (like literally a judge), and one where Ayaya (and possibly others) was a guest... I think those were fun episodes and subbed, too... But I've long ago deleted all my HM eps -.-"
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Slack on August 05, 2009, 10:19:55 AM
That's true that some of the more mean-spirited ones can have you laughing AT them, but in Japanese humor, is there really that much of a difference in laughing with vs. laughing at?  Humiliation is a staple of Japanese comedy, after all.  What other possible purpose can there be to a batsu-game, for example?  I was trying to emphasize the fact that those particular clips, while somewhat sadistic, have a pretty big impact which you can build on.

As fans, the things we find funny/amusing can be horribly boring to those who don't know or care who the girls are.  To someone completely unfamiliar, or even to casual fans, idol-grade humor can be hard to bear.  For example, while a fan might appreciate certain talk show appearances, a non-fan might want you to stop it.  I'd say if you want to appeal through comedy, the Okajo Mechaike episodes are probably your best bet.  Those have some of the widest comedic value of all the things we've listed so far.

There are other avenues into H!P, like cuteness, and quirkiness, but those rely heavily on individual tastes.  Some people adore Charmy Ishikawa and want more, others think she's the most annoying thing ever.  It's not uncommon to hear some non-fans be wholly unimpressed with their cuteness, or their perceived lack thereof.  Time and exposure can change that, but we're talking about the first introductions for potential fans.

In my experience with non-fans, some of the biggest hooks have actually been some of the PVs, like All for One, Go Girl, Joshi Kashimashi and some others.  Why is this?  I believe it's because of the catchiness of the song (usually via a particularly simple or memorable melody), and the impact of the visuals (bright colors, lots of flashy motion).  To put it simply: earworms and eye candy.

For musicians, like one of my roommates, it might take something different.  I introduced him to how certain H!P tracks were just bursting with interlocking effects and details that you hear more and more of with each listen.  Deconstructing certain Tsunku-produced tracks while listening to them gave him respect for how much depth there can be to such seemingly shallow songs.  As a bass player, he latched on to Melon Kinenbi's Kosui and its bassline in particular.  He was particularly impressed at how the bassline perfectly accented certain parts of the song, as well as how complex the percussion was without being overbearing.  A few months later, he was nuts for Melon Kinenbi songs, and was even introducing them to his family.

This just shows you that getting someone into H!P isn't a strict procedure.  It's more like writing a prescription to match that individual's tastes and experiences.  Sometimes a person will only be interested in a certain group, only the music, or only the TV shows.  That said, those PVs I mentioned have wide appeal, and can actually tell you a bit about individual tastes.  Once you figure that out, you can go from there.



...Damn, I have to stop writing posts late at night when I can't sleep.  They turn into this long-winded babbling.
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Rayle on October 17, 2009, 01:26:22 AM
Thanks for all of the suggestions!
Quote from: Slack
As fans, the things we find funny/amusing can be horribly boring to those who don't know or care who the girls are.  To someone completely unfamiliar, or even to casual fans, idol-grade humor can be hard to bear.
Yeah, this is the main reason why I was wary about putting the English lessons on there. Yeah, I found them funny, but only about every third one, and only with certain members. It also only got really funny over time, once the running gags were established. But yeah, they'd be good for someone already familiar with idol culture, who is willing to sit patiently through everything.

Here's the real reason for my response: Someone posted videos entitled "Recommended Morning Musume。live concert footage for new fans!". I'm not sure where exactly it came from or if it was fanmade.

最近モー娘。に興味を持った人にオススメしたいライブ動画 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3r_TPOeo-M#ws-normal)
最近モー娘。に興味を持った人にオススメしたいライブ動画２ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqpR0JTmwjc#ws-normal)

Agree/Disagree?

People seem to agree this is a strong song, but whether the lineup matters is another thing. Also, I'm not so sure about putting this song first, as it's a crowd-pump number, which should be saved for after the audience is feeling the energy.
Good choice. It has a similar crowd-pump feel as HDYLTJ, and Eri's solo  :w00t:
GREAT choice. One of MM's catchiest songs AND dances, disco-fied? It's like an explosion of catchiness guaranteed to get stuck in someone's brain! The crowd chants also really draw one into the mood.
Eh. If it's a new fan, this might become their first "WTF costume" moment. And the impact isn't nearly as good as the Sexy Boy perf, so it'll fall flat in this order.
Much more energy than in Mikan. There are also a lot of little gems that show off how hard the girls work. Not to mention showing off the crowd's enthusiasm. I'd cut out the Mikan perf for this one.
Coming hot off of the heels of Takahashi's vocal powerhousing in Koko ni Iruzee, this one does well to parallel the vocal prowess, but on the opposite spectrum. And it sets us up for the uplifting feel-good followup. Great choice.
Strong song, good performance, cool costumes. I call it a win.
lol at "Natuer". Good contrast with Resonant Blue by showing off a more laid-back, fun MM. And with a song that sounds like the Beatles.
It's hard to resist the infectious mood of this song...once you get over the "WTF costume" moment. Some may never recover, but some may be swayed by the awesomeness of Koharu's sombrero. Some of the cutesy posturing is almost overdone though, which might put off a new fan.
I don't think this number is necessary, after having HDYLTJ and Koko ni Iruzee.
Fierce!MM. Good contrast with Sono Bamen, assuming Handmade City gets cut.
Skinship can instantly hook the right kinds of people, so this song is a must. And the P9D edition might be a little too intense with the member love for a new fan. This one just teases instead, the perfect formula for making new fanfic writers.  :lol:
Costumes are distracting, and not in a good way. Hell, half the time they look like they need to pee. Also, the feelings invoked by this song are largely cover by Sono Bamen.
[/list]

It is soon to be not current lineup only, but I think maybe they should throw in some older things as teasers, like one Golden Age clip and a few Yossy-era perfs(Yah! Aishitai!  :drool:). The videos also focus on crowd pump numbers, but for someone to get into MM now would mean EmoMusume, so there should be some more of those too. I'd add SONGS, and either Jounetsu or Take Off is Now!. Maybe replace TOP! with the Resonant Live Purple Wind dance break, since TOP! is in the same shout-sing style as HDYLTJ. Sono Bamen could be replaced with Koi no Dial 7600 to avoid the WTF costumes, although my point about Koharu's hat stands.
 Overall, though, I think these videos are fairly compelling. But I'm super biased now, there's no way I'd be able to judge how a new fan would feel.  :P
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: redux on October 17, 2009, 02:12:48 AM
Quote from: Rayle on October 17, 2009, 01:26:22 AM
Yeah, this is the main reason why I was wary about putting the English lessons on there. Yeah, I found them funny, but only about every third one, and only with certain members. It also only got really funny over time, once the running gags were established. But yeah, they'd be good for someone already familiar with idol culture, who is willing to sit patiently through everything.

Hm, that's a strange one. I don't know anyone that I've shown the Surprise English Lessons to and they haven't found funny, and not one of them has an interest in the idol culture; and most hadn't even heard of it.

As for vids, well my net is awful now and for another nine months so it would take about an hour for them to load.  :(
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Slack on October 17, 2009, 05:39:29 AM
I found the opening number for Platinum 9 Disco, SONGS, was pretty damned dramatic.
The whole buildup with the lights and everything was pretty nuts.  Works best played loud on a big screen.
Morning Musume 2009 Spring Concert Tour ~PLATINUM 9 DISCO~【HD】Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp7F7phsRI#noexternalembed-ws-normal)

I also love the bonus alternate opening from the 2007 Hello!Pro On Stage concert with Melon Kinenbi and Goto Maki.  Mostly for the same reason as above.  I'll bet that most people haven't seen this one before.

...hmmm, there doesn't seem to be a video of it online.  I'll have to see that that's rectified.
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: J-Triumf on February 01, 2014, 01:37:35 AM
This past weekend I attended a small convention called AOD, in which there was a panel called "Crash Course into Hello! Project" that, as its name implies, attempted to give a quick rundown on what H!P is all about to potential noobs and curious onlookers. Unfortunately it was a bit of a messy presentation, as it quickly rattled off names of various past and present acts with almost no visual aids besides CD jackets of current groups' latest singles, and thus seemed like it would've been intimidating and confusing given the brand's long history; overall the panel just seemed to be nothing more than a setup for the panel hosts' cover song performances (which, to be fair, were actually decent). Still, the concept of a H!P crash course did remind me of the existence of this old thread, which, fittingly enough, was created by someone who attended that convention and panel with me. :P

So the question now is: if you were to set up your own "crash course into H!P", something you could fit into an hour (or less) of convention time, how would you go about it? Would you try to cover all of its long, elaborate history or would you focus more on current lineups and material? How would you balance between visual and musical presentations? How do you explain (if at all) what a Japanese idol is to a know-nothing westerner? I know some issues have been addressed in this thread already, but keep in mind the time constraints of a convention setting, the idol genre's place in otaku culture, and the fact that a lot has changed over the past few years in regards to how accessible material is (compare how H!P was when this thread first started to how it is now).

Personally I think such a panel needs to have a general focus on current stuff, only briefly touching on certain parts of history. One of the things the AOD panel got right was bringing up Momusu's origins in the Sharam Q audition, the "Ai no Tane" sales challenge, and the group's audition/graduation tradition, but beyond that I can only think of a few things that absolutely have to be mentioned, such as "Romantic Ukare Mode" as a fandom staple song, and perhaps the origin of the H!P Kids and certain former Egg/Trainee members...and as an American I think no H!P history discussion would be complete without the mention of [noembed]the Dramatic Chipmunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw)[/noembed].

Speaking of which, appearances in western media would be helpful. Besides the Dramatic Chipmunk, one could also bring up [noembed]the Sexy Otonajan song appearance in last year's Wolverine movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk58grZiZHI)[/noembed], or this particular GIF of Airi (http://i.imgur.com/wMZuo.gif) that has become quite popular on Reddit, or even [noembed]this surprisingly well-researched Minimoni reference from the Tonight Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwEXATMmF88)[/noembed].

And of course, attaching visuals to the names and groups is very important. When I first became a fan I had a pretty tough time telling some girls apart and remembering who's who, especially in a 13-member Momusu lineup, so putting names to faces is something that needs to be done and is where the AOD panel went wrong. This is where the focus on current groups comes in, since obviously there are way too many former members to cover in one hour. Some groups will probably be easier to teach than others (Berryz has Momochi and the tall members, Juice=Juice has had a couple celebrity look-a-likes (http://crazyhpblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/aina-jackson.jpg), S/mileage has a vampire).

And then there's music, something else the AOD panel sort of got right with the cover song performance at the end. As I said before, I'd personally keep the focus on current/recent material, but there are a few songs that deserve mention, such as the aforementioned "Romantic Ukare Mode", and of course "Love Machine", as much as some of us longtime fans might be tired of it. Also, how much should one talk about the evolution of the H!P sound and Tsunku's songwriting, if at all?

Any other thoughts or ideas? Hell, if the panel hosts ever read this consider it panel feedback and an invitation to join this forum and discussion. ;)
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: shirenuファクトリー on February 01, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
Werrrd nutsss, one hour is not much... Well I'd do it as chronologically as possible and involve some major events, such as:
the ASAYAN audition,
(at this point also the concept of graduations and auditions)
Love Machine and Maki Goto,
the Golden era of MM,
biggest MM subgroups/sister groups in H!P (prior to Platinum era),
biggest soloists (Ayaya, Goto, Mikitty),
H!P Kids,
the Platinum era of MM,
the mass graduation of Elder Club,
H!P Eggs/Trainees,
and finally current Hello! Project groups (I'd try to give this as much time as possible tbh, tho it might not be possible)
+ a section on TSUNKU. Who he is must be explained for sure. I mean, I might not be a H!P fan if it wasn't for his weird ass stuff.

Some clips from Haromoni etc. might be included, but I actually don't find stuff like the Dramatic Chipmunk very important OOP. >_> I might include some concert performance, probably a H!P concert opening to show some of that awesome concert mood and wota chants :P
Title: Re: Introduction to H!P Playlist
Post by: Rayle on February 01, 2014, 06:55:50 PM
Don't forget that MM had another viral 15 seconds of fame in America courtesy of Colbert and sticking meat on girl's heads and setting a lizard on them.

Personally, I think mainly doing performances is the way to go, as long as you play either the original MV or concert footage in the background.

Trying to impress anyone with the legacy rarely entices them. It's always going to be That One Song or That One Variety Clip that serves as the gateway drug.