JPHiP Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Masabi on December 07, 2006, 07:16:22 PM
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My Japanese teacher says to "never" use wo (or at least pronounce it that way). But I hear it used all the time in H!P songs and some of the members even use it. I just couldn't imagine Mr Moonlight beginning with "ai o kudasai". I think maybe older people (+25) use it more often? Please explain.
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I've always pronounced and heard it a as "o".
Maybe it's the same principle as MM singing the "su" parts in "desu" or any other should be silent sounds. As in, it may not be right, but it sounds good.
Not too sure though.
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^ I could understand changing the lyrics slightly for desu because it's two syllables versus one (and sometimes it needs it for the rhythm) but "wo" and "o" are the same syllables so I doubt that..
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I guess sometimes it's necessary to put emphasis on ã‚’ to distinct it from other possible words starting with an 'o'. I really have no idea, though.
Oh, and I'd say your teacher is exaggerating on the "never" part.
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I'm talking specifically about the particle, sorry for not specifying @_@ But I think she was exaggerating too that's why I asked. But she's really from Japan (osaka) so I find it hard to doubt her, though I'm sure everyone can be wrong sometimes.
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I was referring to the particle, as well. Wrote a tad too quickly and left something out. :lol: Just as an example:
花を置ã (Hana wo oku)
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From what I can gather from people I've talked to about it, you're never supposed to say "wo" in spoken speech. I've never heard a good reason of why people sing it as "wo" in songs. For extra emphasis maybe? *shrug*
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what dan said is basically the gist of it. you dont say wo, but rather o. but they use the w sound when singing for emphasis, much like the su's at the end of verbs and such, as huggum said.
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Wiki has the answer.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%92
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I don't really think it's as simple as, to avoid confusion.
I think it used to be said as "wo" in older days, but the language just grew out of it. Anything with a "w" just usually isn't said in japanse anymore. The only reason they still have "wo" is because it's a particle, and even so it's almost always pronounced "o". Even the "wa" is sometimes not spoken, for example when Rika says Ishikawa it sounds like "Ishikaa".
It probably also has something to do with region, or cultural backgrounds. But for the most part, it's almost never pronounced as "wo" from what I can tell.
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I'm talking specifically about the particle, sorry for not specifying @_@ But I think she was exaggerating too that's why I asked. But she's really from Japan (osaka) so I find it hard to doubt her, though I'm sure everyone can be wrong sometimes.
This is very odd what you say as i see no issue with that particle infact i would go as far as to say with some sentences how would you say them without that particle. Ok you could probably get around it in some cases but you may sound like your speaking "Japlish" :D
I just asked someone about this (she to is Japanese) and she saies it is an excepted particle and cant understand why someone Japanese would say that it should not be said.
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I always thought it was pronounced "o", but when I hear it spoken it's often slurred to be indistinguishable. When in doubt, talk fast :P
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This is very odd what you say as i see no issue with that particle infact i would go as far as to say with some sentences how would you say them without that particle. Ok you could probably get around it in some cases but you may sound like your speaking "Japlish" :D
I just asked someone about this (she to is Japanese) and she saies it is an excepted particle and cant understand why someone Japanese would say that it should not be said.
The teacher didn't say that you never say the particle. He's asking about the pronounciation of the particle and that she said to never pronounce it "wo" but rather "o".
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Even the "wa" is sometimes not spoken, for example when Rika says Ishikawa it sounds like "Ishikaa".
I've not noticed this, but I have noticed that Tsunku pronounces Takahashi as Takash.
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doesn't it depend on the word that comes before the 'wo' as well? for example if you say 'ai (w)o kudasai' it sounds more natural to say 'ai wo kudasai'. if you want to say 'ai o kudasai' there'd have to be a pause after the 'ai'. i think in a speech it depends on which one sounds more natural or personal preference..
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actually it feels more natural for me to say it ai o kudasai, then again I'm not japanese. Why it feels more natural for me is because you don't have to close your lips when saying it as "o" but you do when saying at as "wo". In regular conversation you tend to just say things as fast as possible so I think this makes sense(I think the same principle is probably used when pronouncing the character "fu" or "hu"). But I'm thinking in some songs it just sounds better to say it as "wo" or there is a long enough pause for it to be said and that's the way they sing it. It's not grammatically incorrect to say it as "wo" anyways. Japanese people seem to like shortening things as much as possible so the "w" was just eventually dropped during speech, but I guess some people like to still say it sometimes.
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Even the "wa" is sometimes not spoken, for example when Rika says Ishikawa it sounds like "Ishikaa".
She's saying "wa", you're just not picking it up. :P
I've not noticed this, but I have noticed that Tsunku pronounces Takahashi as Takash.
Are you sure he's not saying "Takahash", because it's VERY common to omit the last "i" in names and places. (some people omit the last "o" too...Such as "Kyoto" being said as "Kyot")
Just to emphasize the answer, "wo" is ALWAYS SPOKEN as "o".
So why is "wo" pronounced in H!P songs? Cause H!P songs are aimed at 4year old kids, and they don't want them to get confused.
:guchi ducks and covers:
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So why is "wo" pronounced in H!P songs? Cause H!P songs are aimed at 4year old kids, and they don't want them to get confused.
Hotei sings "wo" too, and I know you like him. Do you think he's aimed at 4 year olds? XD
Judging by the subject matter of songs such as VAMPIRE and POISON and even DOUBLE TROUBLE, I'd wager it's a no. XD
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Being a language enthusiast here is whats important -
Langauge is about Communication.
If you can speak quickly and efficiantly you will struggle to communicate. Therefore we introduce shortcuts to say more in less time and for it to be easier.
When saying ' gohan o tabemasu' notice how the flow is gone? as soon as u say o it looses the smooth flow. The extra w sound is introduced to soften it up. Say Gohan wo a few times and Gohan O ...u'll see which goes smoother..
The deal is, which ever makes you sound more natural is the best
Edit: I was born and raised by Japanese people. We call it mount 'hu-ji" and just how british emphasise sounds the americans dont, some people emphasie o and not wo...but really...we say des not desu and wo not o cause its easier!
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I've not noticed this, but I have noticed that Tsunku pronounces Takahashi as Takash.
its quite common in Japanese to clip the vowel at the end of a word, des(u) being the obvious example, futats(u) is another. Often on HM you will hear Tsunk (or it sounds like Tsunk to western ears) instead of Tsunku. In the wo/o debate I think a lot of it is also to do with tradition. Wo is in the W line of kana, so it probably was used in ages past, but language changes and a lot of things get dropped for convenience or ease of usage. In songs, lyrics don't always follow the conventions of the spoken language, sometimes for emphasis or just because they sound good.