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Author Topic: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends  (Read 5481 times)

Offline SomethingWild

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[Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« on: November 07, 2011, 02:42:18 PM »
Based on a quote stolen from someone's Twitter  :lol: I figured it'd be interesting to see how it pans out.

Obviously, idols and girlfriends aren't mutually exclusive and I know both have their obvious pros and cons.

This is just to have some fun with, don't take it too seriously  :P

Explain your choice!

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 03:31:10 PM »
IDOLS 4 LIFE :rock:

Save for the rare mishap, they're always bright & bubbly, and never let you down :deco:

but they can cost just as much

Offline Zorr

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 06:34:42 PM »
Yep, Idols for life :D  They always smile for you and are always entertaining.

If only they could make the dinner once in a while too :lol:

Offline natme

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 05:19:22 AM »
a real girlfriend because they aren't a pipe dream. Well....maybe they are for some people.

Offline atarashii-michi

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 11:50:02 AM »
idols! <3
since im a straight girl, so i don't really want a girlfriend~

Offline SomethingWild

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 11:53:42 AM »
OK, bear with me on this, here we go.

In Plato's Symposium, he defines "love" as a desire for something that one does not have. Whatever this may be, the chance is high that idols can offer it. It does not necessarily have to relate to love as such, but it could be something much more simple. For example, someone who can make you smile or cheer you up. Idols can offer you the feeling you are not alone or they can give you hope in darker times. Girlfriends can also provide "love." However, they have their own desires as well, so it's more like a two-way stream. It's give and take, whereas it's an idol's job to give. Of course, idols get back a lot from their fans in the form of fan letters and such, but it is not an on demand fulfillment of their specific desires.

Back to the argument of "idols VS girlfriends." They are not mutually exclusive and both can offer "love" in a different way. To further explore this notion, let's take a look at Plato's ladder model of love. The first step on the ladder is a beautiful body - The most obvious form of love. We see a girl and check out her appearance. This is true for girlfriends and idols. There are quite a few fans out there who first got into idols by seeing them in magazines and thinking they looked hot. You spot a girl you like and go from there.

The second step of the ladder is called all beautiful bodies - After a while we will find that the beauty contained in this beautiful body is not original, that it is shared by every beautiful body. Someone here summed it up nicely by stating that AKB48 helped him to see that every girls has her charm points. Every girl has something special. So that hot body we initially fell for is nothing special. Interestingly, a lot of idols can offer this second step of "love," whereas in some cases, girlfriends never make it past the first step. For example, one night stands. You meet a girl with a hot body, have some fun and it never evolves beyond that step. Please note: this is definitely not the case for all girlfriends, as we shall soon find out.

Once we realize that a hot body isn't enough to fulfill our desires, we move on to the third step: Beautiful souls - After most likely attempting to have every beautiful body, one should realize that if a single love does not satisfy, there is not reason to think that many ones will satisfy. As a result, we need to shift focus. In the words of Plato, "bring his passion for the one into due proportion by deeming it of little or of no importance." Instead, the passion is transferred to a more appropriate object: the soul. This is an interesting step for various reasons. When we get to know a girlfriend, we may not like what we find. No girl is 100% perfect and the chances a guy and a girl match 100% is virtually impossible. On the other hand, we barely get to know idols at all. We only discover tiny bits about their character and interests through TV shows, blogs and such. The plus side is that they promote themselves in such a way that they are highly likable by a wide variety of people. As such, it's very difficult to discover a trait of your favorite idol you do not like at all. In sum, even though the knowledge of a girl's soul may be deeper with a girlfriend, it also means there will be some flaws. Whereas idols offer a more shallow image, which is closer to one's ideal girl. One question that arises is to what extent you want to really know a girl? How well do you need to know a girl in order for her to be able "love" you and vice versa?

I'm skipping steps four and five because they are irrelevant to the argument. It's the final step where it gets interesting. In step six we will find out the answer to the great question.

The final step is Beauty itself - This is the platonic "form" of beauty itself. It is not a particular thing that is beautiful, but is instead the essence of beauty. Plato describes this level of love as a "wondrous vision," an "everlasting loveliness which neither comes nor ages, which neither flowers nor fades." It is eternal and isn't "anything that is of the flesh" nor "words" nor "knowledge" but consists "of itself and by itself in an eternal oneness, while every lovely thing partakes of it." So basically, love at its highest level is almost like a religious experience. It's not about one girl's hot body, or one girl's incredible wit, but it's an encompassing feeling that lasts forever.

Now, if we tone that down a bit, we can conclude that idols offer a higher level of love than girlfriends. An idol's love is unconditional. No matter who you are, where you or what you look like, you will always be able to count on your idol to be there for you. The ultimate question is, what kind of love are you looking for? If you have a girlfriend and you are only interested in her body, sure, go ahead. However, you'll be stuck at step one and only experience love at its most basic form. The question is to what extent that will fulfill your desires. In Plato's view, it won't. Furthermore, the argument that you can't have a physical relationship with an idol is irrelevant in this sense, because idols offer a form of love that has evolved beyond that step. The idea that we may have a natural drive for procreation may be true, but that is not necessarily related to the concept of love as we are discussing here. In conclusion, the higher we move up the ladder, the more we have to focus on an idol's unconditional everlasting "love."

Idols VS girlfriends? Idols.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 01:19:06 PM by BarrieV »

Offline maliciel

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 12:58:59 PM »
What the fuck?

Upvoted Thanked for having too much time on your hands. :lol:

Offline natme

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 12:38:55 AM »
Once we realize that a hot body isn't enough to fulfill our desires, we move on to the third step: Beautiful souls - After most likely attempting to have every beautiful body, one should realize that if a single love does not satisfy, there is not reason to think that many ones will satisfy. As a result, we need to shift focus. In the words of Plato, "bring his passion for the one into due proportion by deeming it of little or of no importance." Instead, the passion is transferred to a more appropriate object: the soul. This is an interesting step for various reasons. When we get to know a girlfriend, we may not like what we find. No girl is 100% perfect and the chances a guy and a girl match 100% is virtually impossible. On the other hand, we barely get to know idols at all. We only discover tiny bits about their character and interests through TV shows, blogs and such. The plus side is that they promote themselves in such a way that they are highly likable by a wide variety of people. As such, it's very difficult to discover a trait of your favorite idol you do not like at all. In sum, even though the knowledge of a girl's soul may be deeper with a girlfriend, it also means there will be some flaws. Whereas idols offer a more shallow image, which is closer to one's ideal girl. One question that arises is to what extent you want to really know a girl? How well do you need to know a girl in order for her to be able "love" you and vice versa?


I think you defeat your own argument here. We never get to know our idols, so how can we ever move beyond this step? We only know what is given to us, and that information is not enough for fulfillment. Also, being able to accept the flaws of a person is part of what is needed to have love since no one is perfect, so this is a requirement that cannot be skipped. We have no way of knowing enough flaws that our idols have, so that requirement can never be passed.

If anyone says that they have moved beyond this point, then they are just experiencing an illusion of love. Since we are talking about Plato, I'll bring in the "Allegory of the Cave" from The Republic to explain this. Long story short, a group of people are chained to a cave wall their whole lives while facing it. The only reality that they know are the shadows that get projected onto the wall.  This reality is an illusion, but they are unaware of that. One day, one of the men is released and perceives the real reality for the first time. To tie this into this argument, if you think you love your idol, you are just experiencing an illusion because you have no been enlightened enough to have experienced true love. It's also impossible to know whether or not you are experiencing true reality and thus love unless you reach the ideal state as described in Plato's Theory of Forms, which I won't get into, but if we use Plato's model of love and apply the Allegory of the Cave to the reality we perceive, then idols definitely do not fulfill the requirements.

Also, I'm not saying that girlfriends can fulfill everything needed for love, but they can at least get a step further than an idol based on what was said above, but ultimately none of us can know since we cannot achieve the ideal state, which itself may not even exist. We have no way of knowing. Isn't Philosophy amazing?

In case people are just more confused, a good analogy for the ideal state are the ascended beings in Stargate since they have achieved full enlightenment and gone to another plane of existence.

Offline Scatterbrain

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 01:58:48 AM »
Now, if we tone that down a bit, we can conclude that idols offer a higher level of love than girlfriends. An idol's love is unconditional. No matter who you are, where you or what you look like, you will always be able to count on your idol to be there for you. The ultimate question is, what kind of love are you looking for? If you have a girlfriend and you are only interested in her body, sure, go ahead. However, you'll be stuck at step one and only experience love at its most basic form. The question is to what extent that will fulfill your desires. In Plato's view, it won't. Furthermore, the argument that you can't have a physical relationship with an idol is irrelevant in this sense, because idols offer a form of love that has evolved beyond that step. The idea that we may have a natural drive for procreation may be true, but that is not necessarily related to the concept of love as we are discussing here. In conclusion, the higher we move up the ladder, the more we have to focus on an idol's unconditional everlasting "love."

Let me focus on this paragraph of your whole exposition.
I understand your point of idol love is unconditional, but let us think a little about what can we consider as love.
I feel unable to consider as a wholly "sane" or "worhtwhile" relationship of love something that is really one-sided or a relationship in which one part (the wota itself) makes more sacrifices than the other part (the idol).
An idol love is not unconditional because it focuses on many people, and that's not being unconditional, it's being unfaithful in some sort of way. Unconditional love would be if the girl be with you in your hard times and could accompany you in your whole way in this life.
That's all. Sorry for my lousy writing.
Idols, idols everywhere >.<

Offline Datalanche

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2011, 04:06:52 AM »
I think for me personally, an affection as deep as love in its "purest form" doesn't really enter the equation to a major extent. When I say I love Sasshi, Churi, Shawako or whoever, I think I mean it more in the sense that I love what they do moreso than I love them as a person. I don't really know them as a person, now do I? For all I know, their true colors when the camera's off might not be appealing to me at all. But I don't really care about that, and aside from the occasional daydream of how nice it would be to have the perfect girlfriend that looks like Churi and acts like a graceful princess, I don't really emotionally invest in the idols themselves. Not to that degree, anyway. Now, paradoxically, I do invest some emotion into the hobby itself, because it's something that brings me a lot of fun. It's helped me through trying times. Without the 48 groups, where would I even be right now? I wouldn't know so many people who are now great friends, I wouldn't have met people who have come and gone that played a major role in changing my life, I wouldn't have started being active in forums and public blogging again at all. They give me plenty to do and a shit ton of entertainment. For that I feel very thankful and affectionate towards the group period. That's why I continue to buy singles despite the horrible yen exchange rate. That's why I continue to rape my hard drives with their content. To do all these things that probably mean nothing to anyone except me is because I love this hobby. But the love of a hobby is pretty different from what one would have towards a girlfriend, unless of course you have an unhealthy relationship with the hobby. That's usually when the person starts stealing AKB members' mail and stuff like that.  :nervous

I think the closest I've come to having an emotional bond with a member of these groups would be with Hata Sawako. I started watching Ana-Ana Shoukai in 2010 and became aware of her when she was still a kenkyuusei, which then there was pretty much no information about them. Since the very beginning I've found her personality so endearing, and the ways she has improved since those days are almost unimaginable. I know it's just my opinion, but even though she still has her awkward moments and is a total goofball, for how far she has come she has earned my respect and she's the only one I can wholeheartedly say that of. I love seeing her thrive in SKE48 like she is now. All that aside, do I love her? Maybe to that so-called "first step", but I'm not delusional. I realize I don't really know her and probably never will, but I do feel something towards her. Maybe respect is the right word, after all? I'm not sure. The word "grateful" also comes to mind, as well. She's definitely provided the lulz, and the occasional droolz. In any case, it's a good feeling. If I had the ability to choose just one member for a wife, I'd definitely pick her, though. :lol:

Idols vs Girlfriends? A real relationship is a terrific gift, but a great one is a treasure that can take some time to find. I'm happy with my idols (and buds) in the meantime. The ultimate win would be to find a fellow fan. Both of these worlds colliding in harmony? That would be fucking sweet.

Offline Scatterbrain

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2011, 04:34:01 PM »
I know some people who are in love with idols, but REALLY in love with idols - they even stopped searching for girls IRL and all that... and girls doesn't seek them, because we're men and we have to do all the work and stuff.

I can't be in love with an idol in such a way. THat would be a really sad feeling. However, I have thought about it many many times, but I haven't dared to try it even once.
Idols, idols everywhere >.<

Offline shurastriker

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2011, 07:43:01 PM »
IDOLS 4 LIFE

having a girlfriend is not the same... i'm not cool with the options since i aagree with both points. Have a girlfriend and keep loving idols... even if she is a real idol :V

Offline sakura_drop_

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Re: [Poll] Idols VS Girlfriends
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 12:38:57 PM »
IDOLS FOR LIFE DEFINITELY!!!

YUKO-SAMA, RENA-SAMA, I'M LOYAL TO YOU FOR ETERNITY!!!!
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