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Author Topic: Experiences with Windows Vista  (Read 5007 times)

Offline chera

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Experiences with Windows Vista
« on: December 24, 2006, 11:45:15 PM »
Could H!P'sters who have tried out Windows Vista share their experiences?  With release less than 2 months away, I'm interested in seeing whether it's worth the hassle of upgrading from XP and reinstalling all my apps.

I'm very conservative with my OS's: I only upgraded to XP in 2003, after using Windows 2000 for 3 years.  And I'm still using OS X Panther on another computer.  I'm not really impressed with the fancy visuals of Vista because after all these years of using XP and 2000, my theme is still Windows Classic, with all effects turned off.

Processor and RAM-wise, I should be able to run Vista with no problem.  The only bottleneck is video: my laptop (a ThinkPad R52) only has 64MB of graphics memory on a Radeon X300, which is less than the 128MB minimum for Vista Capable.

Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 08:30:11 AM »
^ Hm there are a few versions of the R52 it looks like, the one I am seeing has a Intel 900 with 128MB..

I for now would not run Vista on a labtop, unless it was specificly made for it, has to do with graphics but also with power consumption. Some default settings in Vista are made to have it work smoothly, but reduce battery life.
Aero Glass and all the other frills require memory and CPU power to work.

That said an X300 should be able to run Aero Glass Vista (but the <128MB will probably disable the feature), I have used a PCIxpress X300 for testing without problems.
If you are still using the classic theme, you might only have advantage of the improved security features while running, but thats about it.

Vista (in my view currently) is about security and looks.

Vista is going on my work-desktop next week to see how it behaves during daily work (including program development) together with Office 2007, w'll see, it will need some getting used to with the file-explorer but I like the 'search' box which is actually a combined search/run/connect to network shares without having to click the 'Run...' like in XP.

Offline chera

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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2006, 10:03:41 PM »
Quote from: frblckstr1;267017
Vista (in my view currently) is about security and looks.


Is that "security" as in "it crashes/hangs less" or as in "fewer more resistant to /trojans/spyware/virii"?  I've never been infected, so it's the former that I want.

Offline Masabi

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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2006, 10:16:49 PM »
^ I think they mean less trojans/spyware/viruses (yes, I actually checked to make sure I was using the plural of Virus right.. how sad)
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Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 06:59:07 AM »
It is also about crashes/hangs because they shifted a lot of drivers out of the kernel space again (putting them in started with W2000) because they (meaning things like display drivers) have a tendency to crash the most.

Yes most crashes these days are not directly in Windows but in drivers not written by Microsoft, they are coming back from the 'speed improvement' and going back to stability.

Offline reyfer

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Experiences with Windows Vista
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2006, 02:13:55 AM »
For all those interested in Vista, check out this site http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
the info there may help you with your choice. You can also find that document here http://storeandserve.com/download/661570/VistaCost.doc.html

Offline nazokage

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Experiences with Windows Vista
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2006, 02:20:25 AM »
my freind tried it out he said it reminded him of  a cheap ripoff of mac osX

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Offline nalla

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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2006, 06:26:37 AM »
i have a friend that has use it and his opinion of it is that "it rocks" so im guessing its good. well as for myself i like the new quality and effects. for the computer i have now, it may hiccup a bit while running vista (first i'll need to upgrade to 1 gig though, but gfx is the problem) but im gonna build a new system anyway and it'll be ready for vista =]. i tried using vista for a bit on someone elses computer, i say any windows will do fine but i'll get vista because i like the new feel to it. its always nice to have a new theme and all that seeing the same thing everyday.

Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2006, 08:44:00 AM »
Quote from: nazokage;270979
my freind tried it out he said it reminded him of  a cheap ripoff of mac osX
Poeple should remember Vista was *designed* (and actually a mockup shown) *before* al those new flashy mac OSX thingies.

Main problem: the 3D interfaces was never completed :evil: so now Sun (yes Sun not Apple) 'steals the show' with there 3D desktop.

Yup, Microsoft dropped the ball in a lot of places with Vista.

Offline Carisear

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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2006, 07:20:39 PM »
i used it for a few months, and it was alright i guess.  the main things i noticed.

1) NO driver support
2) amd64 3000+,1g ram, 256mb radeon x600pro ... is slow.  i would say 2g ram and a newer vid card would be needed.

in 6 months to a year, you'll have no choice but to upgrade.  it's the way of the future.

Offline Sayange

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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2006, 07:52:52 PM »
Haven't ried it but the only thing i noe is:

Vista---> resources eater.

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Offline reyfer

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Experiences with Windows Vista
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2006, 08:29:47 PM »
Quote from: frblckstr1;271221
Poeple should remember Vista was *designed* (and actually a mockup shown) *before* al those new flashy mac OSX thingies.

Main problem: the 3D interfaces was never completed :evil: so now Sun (yes Sun not Apple) 'steals the show' with there 3D desktop.

Yup, Microsoft dropped the ball in a lot of places with Vista.


People should remember that the Aqua interface (those new flashy mac OSX thingies) has been around for more than 8 years. And the Sun 3D desktop (Project Looking Glass) has been in development for about seven years, went out of sight for a while and now is back. And the 3D desktop that's stealing the show is not Sun's, is one developed by Novell for it's Linux distro, a project called Compiz, that has its best example in a program called Beryl
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nsUKXEaTgcg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CBRba0jsxGQ

Offline chera

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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2006, 09:41:15 PM »
The only thing that I really really liked about OSX was Expose, the 1-click windows management system.  After using Expose, the thought of using Alt-Tab or dragging the mouse to the Start Bar seems obscene.  

All the other 3D flash is just for show, but Expose actually improved my productivity.  

If Vista has similar flashy features to OS X, but none of the productivity enhancements, I don't relaly know what I have to look forward too.

Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2007, 09:23:57 AM »
Quote from: chera;271575
The only thing that I really really liked about OSX was Expose, the 1-click windows management system.  After using Expose, the thought of using Alt-Tab or dragging the mouse to the Start Bar seems obscene.
That kind of feature actually was shown in the mockup for Vista (before Apple showed/implemented it) and not completed :evil:

IE7 has a simular feature for tabbed webpages.

Can't says I use those 'enhancements' I am still a taskbar junky.

@reyfer: that is actualy XINE, an X-Windows feature.
While I do not like effects when opening a menu (certainly not rotating) is does look flashy :)
And: even more a resource hog (e.g. CPU/highend graphics card needed)

BTW this kind of 3D interface (walls you have your programs on) is from even more then 10 years ago but only available on high-end X-Windows workstations then, they are just now 'coming down' to 'normal' desktops.

(Whish that Apple hadn't dropped the Lisa for the Mac)

Offline reyfer

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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 05:35:38 AM »
@frblckstr1: I'm using it on my linux, and it is called BERYL. To confuse it with XINE (which by the way is a multimedia playback engine) is something I don't understand. And about resource hog, it is working great on my PC, AMD Semprom 2800+, 1 GB ram, and an Nvidia GeForce FX 5500 512 Mb. And I still can do all my work.

Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2007, 07:09:23 AM »
Ah, sorry name confusion (not using *nix that mush just keeping an eye on it till I find enough usefull programs for me)

I was actually refering the Xgl, the underlying Xwindows technology (incl. OpenGL) that is used to 'do it' a.f.a.i.k.
Novell uses it also: http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/features/xgl/

And I mean resource hog because a video card with 512MB (I think you mean MB not Mb) and 1GB of memory is even more then the spec Vista uses.
Running this on a 32MB video card and 256MB memory... I don't think so.

Offline reyfer

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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2007, 07:36:19 AM »
Quote from: frblckstr1;272612
Ah, sorry name confusion (not using *nix that mush just keeping an eye on it till I find enough usefull programs for me)

I was actually refering the Xgl, the underlying Xwindows technology (incl. OpenGL) that is used to 'do it' a.f.a.i.k.
Novell uses it also: http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/features/xgl/

And I mean resource hog because a video card with 512MB (I think you mean MB not Mb) and 1GB of memory is even more then the spec Vista uses.
Running this on a 32MB video card and 256MB memory... I don't think so.

You're right, it is XGL.

And about running Vista on a 32MB video card and 256MB memory... I dare you to show me proof that somebody actually did it, because I talked to Microsoft techs here and in USA and they laughed at me. As a matter of fact, the Vista System requirements specify at least 128 MB video memory.
Quote
What is a Windows Vista Capable PC?

A new PC that carries the Windows Vista Capable PC logo can run Windows Vista. All editions of Windows Vista will deliver core experiences such as innovations in organizing and finding information, security, and reliability. All Windows Vista Capable PCs will run these core experiences at a minimum. Some features available in the premium editions of Windows Vista—like the new Windows Aero user experience—may require advanced or additional hardware.

A Windows Vista Capable PC includes at least:

    * A modern processor (at least 800MHz).
    * 512 MB of system memory.
    * A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable.

Windows Vista Premium Ready PCs
To get an even better Windows Vista experience, including the Windows Aero user experience, ask for a Windows Vista Capable PC that is designated Premium Ready, or choose a PC that meets or exceeds the Premium Ready requirements described below. Features available in specific premium editions of Windows Vista, such as the ability to watch and record live TV, may require additional hardware.

A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:

    * 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
    * 1 GB of system memory.
    * Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum), Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
    * 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
    * DVD-ROM Drive.
    * Audio output capability.
    * Internet access capability.
From http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 07:42:06 AM by reyfer »

Offline frblckstr1

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Experiences with Windows Vista
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2007, 07:45:55 AM »
Quote from: reyfer;272626
And about running Vista on a 32MB video card and 256MB memory... I dare you to show me proof that somebody actually did it, because I talked to Microsoft techs here and in USA and they laughed at me. As a matter of fact, the Vista System requirements specify at least 128 MB video memory.
 From http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx
I was not refering to Vista for that (more to other 'standard' *nix actually)
Vista does not need 128MB video memory to run unless you want Aero with Glass (it does want 512MB RAM) and its an 'enforced' limit to 'get performance'.
Haven't retried lately to force an install on less RAM, not sure if any RTM version actually allows it.

Offline Pen-Pen

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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2007, 09:10:59 AM »
If you game expect there to be some compatibility issues. For example, World of Warcraft and Warcraft III have sound issues (WC3's problem is actually resolvable with the use of a 3rd party program). And like others have said, there may be driver issues. There's all the issues of Vista being resource intensive and the like, but having said that I'm still able to run the most resource intensive games (Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic) out there at a reasonable speed and my computer only scores a 4.8 or so on the "Vista Experience" scale.

Let's put it this way; Vista is kind of fun to install and try out just because it's a new OS, but if you have to reliably produce with your computer in anyway you should wait until Vista becomes well established as far as the drivers/program compatibility goes. Also, if you don't like the idea of having to tinker around to get all your old programs and external hardware running Vista is also not for you. Furthermore, a lot of the newer features are aimed at user-friendliness and an increased amount of wizards rather than any real increase in efficiency.

Offline frblckstr1

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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2007, 12:21:34 PM »
Quote from: Pen-Pen;273865
There's all the issues of Vista being resource intensive and the like, ... out there at a reasonable speed and my computer only scores a 4.8 or so on the "Vista Experience" scale.
My system is scoring 2.6 (for gaming) and 3.1 (for Business Graphics) as lowest points.
CPU is 4.2 (3GHz P4) memory at 5.3 (2GB interleaved), HD is 5.3 (160GB SATA)

And I must says for now its performing faster at most programs then XP on this same hardware. But that might be attributed mainly also to a new install (and still have no virus scanner active), the XP had been running/upgraded/misused for 2 years.

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